Loft Conversion & Fire Door

[Tom_Sauce]

Hi all,

Joiner has told me that because of a loft conversion (there when we bought the house) we will need Fire Doors in the following rooms to provide a 'safe passage' outside for the loft room occupant:

Loft Room
Office Room - staircase of loft leads to office room
Bedroom
Master Bedroom
Kitchen

Is this correct - seems like overkill?

I understand one in the Loft room and possibly the office to allow the occupant to get out of the 1st floor window in case of a fire. The others seem bonkers.

If the loft room did not exist the occupant of the Office Room would have to go through the same 'passage' past the kitchen etc

Any advice would be appreciated as this has upped the cost considerably. Would the new frames also have to me fire rated? What about architrave etc

Thanks

TS

 

[^woody^]

Was the loft conversion certified by building control? If so, check the approval and final certificate.

The carpenter is more or less correct. If required, it's fire door sets (door and lining) not just doors. But existing linings may already be compliant.

You need to check what the manufacturer of the fire door specifies.

 

[Tom_Sauce]

Thanks for that Woody,

The conversion was completed years before we purchased the property and therefore I don't know if it was certified or not. Do you know if there is a way to check this?

My issue is the strange 'safe path' rule.

The staircase from the loft conversion finishes in a box bedroom that has been sacrificed to make way for the staircase. If there was a fire in any of the rooms that face onto the stairway then this would be affected irrelevant of a loft conversion or not.

I don't understand why the regs state that no fire doors are needed then but now are. The kitchen being a prime example.

 

[^woody^]

The requirement is for a protected means of escape to a final exit door.

In practice this means fire door sets on all habitable rooms off this route.

In context the reasoning is that a fire in any room off the route, should not spread into the route before people have been able to use it to escape the house.

 

[^woody^]

Btw, assuming this is a loft in a house, as the above won't apply to bungalows.

 

[Tom_Sauce]

It's a flawed reg though.

It's not like it would take 10 minutes to walk down a flight of stairs.

Take the following example:

You have two houses A & B
They are exactly the same other than house B having a loft conversion with a staircase that runs into the loft from one of the bedrooms.

House B has a protected fire route from the loft through the bedroom and outside. House A has nothing.

That makes no sense to me.

 

[^woody^]

It's not like it would take 10 minutes to walk down a flight of stairs.

Not after hot smoke has entered the landing, knocked out or disoriented the sleeping occupants and caused a flash over on wall coverings or other flammable materials on the stairs, hallway and landing.

That's what happens, that's why we have those regulations and requirements, so that's why fire door sets are fitted.

You don't want to be in a situation where family members die. Or that then your home insurance don't pay out because you have unlawful alterations and a fire safety risk you did not tell them about on the proposal form.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It's a flawed reg though.

It's not like it would take 10 minutes to walk down a flight of stairs.

Take the following example:

You have two houses A & B
They are exactly the same other than house B having a loft conversion with a staircase that runs into the loft from one of the bedrooms.

House B has a protected fire route from the loft through the bedroom and outside. House A has nothing.

That makes no sense to me.

Fortunately you're not a fire officer.

 

[Tom_Sauce]

Not after hot smoke has entered the landing, knocked out or disoriented the sleeping occupants and caused a flash over on wall coverings or other flammable materials on the stairs, hallway and landing.

What I'm struggling to get around is that this could happen anyway to the house in my example without the loft conversion and the person in the bedroom would still be 'stuck', so why aren't the regs in place for a normal dwelling?

 

[Tom_Sauce]

Fortunately you're not a fire officer.

Agreed

 

[Tom_Sauce]

Fortunately you're not a fire officer.

 

[big-all]

simple answer is regulations are improved or altered to gain from experience and situations but are not retrospective so iff your attic room is pre the regs then you can choose not to wear your seat belt and not learn the lessons off the past ??

 

[drpepe]

Isn’t the alternative to have an alarm in every room?

2 floor house plus loft conversion - Our only fire doors are the loft bedrooms. Was signed off in November last year.

 

[^woody^]

What I'm struggling to get around is that this could happen anyway to the house in my example without the loft conversion and the person in the bedroom would still be 'stuck', so why aren't the regs in place for a normal dwelling?

Because the risk increase in buildings greater than two storeys

 

[tony1851]

If the small bedroom has been sacrificed for the stairs, I doubt you would need a fire door at loft level, as long as the 'access bedroom' itself has a fire door on to the 1st floor landing.