Loft conversion - Fire regulations

[lucashc]

I have just had someone round to give me a quote for a loft conversion in what is currently a 2 bed terrace. The conversion would be within permitted minimums and would therefore not require planning permission, but there is a potential issue with regards to the fire regulations.

Our existing stairs end in our living room, which is also open with the kitchen. I understand building regulations require/recommend a fire passage from the stairs to the exit from the building. This would be far from desirable.

The advice was to try to get confirmation in writing from insurers that an extension to a third floor was covered by our policy (without reference to this issue), and to tell building inspector that this work would be done shortly.

It seems that not doing this right must have a realistic chance of throwing up serious issues when selling the property on in the future.

Does anyone know exactly what the fire regulation requires, and what the implications might be if this is not followed?

Thanks

Lucas

 

[masona]

The conversion would be within permitted minimums and would therefore not require planning permission, but there is a potential issue with regards to the fire regulations.

You will need building regulations permission which will included fire regs.
The reason for this is, if the fire started in the lounge area where the staircase is, how are you going to get out unless you have a dormer window which then will need planning permission.
I have a spiral staircase in my lounge with a velux fire escape window in the loft conversion to get out in case of fire. You will still need building permission from your building control plus some of the rules may have change.

Does anyone know exactly what the fire regulation requires, and what the implications might be if this is not followed?

Not worth it, doesn't cost a great deal when compare to convert it back to how it was ! You may also find your household insurance voided. Cheaper to do it correctly and a it's good investment

 

[lucashc]

I understand that a velux fire escape window is necessary to obtain building control approval, but did not think this needed planning permission also. Whether it does or not, it will be done properly and is not the issue.

The issue is whether my existing stairs from the ground floor to the first floor need to be within an enclosed fire passage which leads to the front door. This is not practical since it would make the dining area of my lounge too narrow to be useable, and would stop the project happening at all.

 

[masona]

I understand that a velux fire escape window is necessary to obtain building control approval, but did not think this needed planning permission also

You normally only need planning permission if you're going to altered the size of a roof such as dormer window, escape velux window come under building approval.

The issue is whether my existing stairs from the ground floor to the first floor need to be within an enclosed fire passage which leads to the front door. This is not practical since it would make the dining area of my lounge too narrow to be useable, and would stop the project happening at all.

I'm sorry you cannot do any of this without building approval. There are many ways round over your problem, they are many slimline staircase type or maybe a spiral stairs which mine is 36" in dia in the corner of my lounge. You could have a external staircase outside the wall maybe ? If you can do a drawing maybe some of us can help you with some idea.

 

[lucashc]

Rough drawing:

The problem is that to create a fire passage from the bottom of the ground floor stairs to the front door, as shown on the left in red, would make the back half of the lounge too narrow to be useable.

I have also shown on the right, again in red, where I propose to put the stairs up to the second floor. There is also the option of going stairs over stairs with a passage cutting into the smaller second bedroom.

Thanks in advance.

Lucas

 

[masona]

I understand building regulations require/recommend a fire passage from the stairs to the exit from the building.

Did this information come from building control ?

Thanks for the drawing, it would now be very difficult for me to say without seeing it because I don't know the size of the rooms and which walls are the load bearing etc.

My best advice now would be to find a architect to just give you idea what you can have done under the building permission plan. Some don't charge for this or there could be a small fee for their time, check first. A architect will have a lot of experience for these sort of problem who should be able to find the best solution. An architect do not work for building control and will be your side to help!

I was wondering where the staircase is now, could it not be in the opposite direction so you turn right from the front door and straight upstairs ? spiral or emergency staircase outside etc. As I say I don't know without looking at it. Sorry I can't be much help as I can't really give you the advice over the forum. It's important to get this right.
Good luck.

 

[salem2000]

First point of contact is your local Building Regs Office, they are only too happy to help and give advice on how to proceed, that is what they are there for. They will be able to tell you if your stairs will need to be enclosed or not. It may be that as the new stairs will be enclosed, that it's not a problem.

An architect will have the all information he needs to make up the plans, that you WILL need to provide in any case, a worthwhile investment in my opinion. As regards Planning Permission, this is not always needed even if you have a full dormer window fitted. This will depend on if you live in a conservation area and/or the building is listed or not and how big the project is.

However you WILL need Building Regs approval for this type of work in all cases. This is to ensure that the quality of work is safe and according to the current regulations. Also whilst the work is being carried out you must advise the insurance co anyway otherwise you will be in breach of the terms of your insurance.

Salem.

 

[lucashc]

Thank you both for your help. I need to clarify exacty what the building regulations say, and will be contacting them first.

If they are as suggested, then turning the stairs around is a possibility I can look into. An outside staircase is not possible, and I don't see a spiral as practical with very young children in the house.

Thanks, Lucas.