Loft Conversion - redoing a DIY job

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Hi There,

New to the forum so bear with me. I live in a semi detached hour built in 1870. We bought it four years ago, and the loft had been converted, but it appears very much like it’s a DIY job. The stairs go straight up into the middle of the room (rather than back over the staircase from ground floor to first floor). There’s one velux window installed, and there’s some storage built into the eaves. There’s no door for access to the loft, so all it’s good for is a study space and storage. The highest point for head height is about 2m. The pitch of the roof is quite steep, so there’s not much usable full height space. The floor noticeably slopes from the party wall to the outside wall (but the ceiling below is fine). The floor space is about 3.5m x 3.5m

As we’ve only got two bedrooms on the first floor, and my family is growing, I’m planning to partition part of the loft space off (the side with the window) and fit out a new bedroom for my two year old. We don’t have the cash to do a full and proper loft conversion. This would, I think, be pretty straightforward, but it got me thinking about load and whether the DIY job on the loft is sufficient.

I plan to fully redecorate the loft, so I’ll take the carpet up and lift the floorboards to have a look at the floor joists and then probably get a builder round to advise about acceptable loads. I’d like to be a bit more clued up before then, however, so I have a few questions:

1) I’ve read a bit about needing to reinforce floor joists in lofts to take additional load. The conversion has been done for 10 years or more, and has been used as a room since then. We’ve currently got two desks, and futon, loads of books and loads of boxes in the eaves. Add my weight and in total it’s a few hundred kgs I would think. I’m wondering – if the floor hasn’t been reinforced, i.e. if it’s just on the ceiling joists – could it take this load for this amount of time? I don’ think the new room would be much different in terms of load. Put another way, if you don’t reinforce the floor, how quickly can you expect the ceilings to collapse/show signs of stress?

2) My second question is, given the ceiling height and possible lack of additional floor support, the loft may not comply with building regs. What should I do about this? If it transpires that it doesn’t comply, am I obliged or advised to make the necessary alterations? And, if I wanted a (reputable) builder to reinforce the floor joists/add steel beams, would they do it without doing the other necessary things to ensure building regs were met?

Thanks for any help anyone can give!
 
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OK, everything depends upon the load bearing capacity of the ceiling joists and luckily the build strength of houses this age are normally far higher than modern ones. So let's establish first the depth and configuration of these joists.
Depth and thickness will enlighten of the probable load capacity you can get, configuration i.e. are they sitting on a central load bearing wall or full span. Also are the joists dwanged (noggin ed) to stiffen and prevent twisting, all of these things can be done by yourself without involving a local builder, if you wish.

A sketch of the landing and stairs would help, also one for the proposed works you are prepared to do...pinenot
 
Thanks Pinenot,

I need to clear out the loft, and then remove the eaves storage fronts and carpets before i can get to the floor joists - but will post them as soon as i know! I've included a sketch below for info (sorry, it's a bit pale). Measurements are approx. The main construction i want to do is build a partition wall as indicated. I'll be replacing the eaves storage cupboard doors, but still keeping it. Then i'll do a built in bed and bench for the room, but that'll be simply replacing furniture (two desks) which is already in the loft, so no change in the load.

What about the second question - will a builder do some work on the loft, if the whole loft doesnt comply with building regs? EG, if both the floor load capacity and head height room is a 'problem' for building regs, would a builder do the floor for me without me doing anything about the head height?

Thanks again

 
you can measure top floor height to ceilling underneath and deduct about 40-50mm to get the joist sizes
also need the unsupported span and the centers between joists
 
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Thanks pinenot. I'd considered that, but the space you have as a store room will actually be a study area...in which case you'd need some natural light otherwise it'd be like working in a cave! And you'd have to do some work with the radiator. All additional cost, which, at the moment, I'm trying to avoid!
 
OK everyone, i've now cleared out my loft (that was a big job!) and i've managed to have a look at the joists etc. Here's what i found:

- interestingly, the joists run from the front to the back of the house, not from the party wall to the outside wall.

- the original joists were 7cm x 5cm, and these have been strengthend by additional 5cm x 5cm timber, so the joists are now 12cm x 5 cm.

- The additional timber does not go right to the end of the joists - it stops where the eaves storage starts, around 75cm from each end.

- The joists are 45 cm apart.

- I did a new room measurement, and it's 4.5m x 4.5m

- I think there is a structural wall which runs perpendicular to the joists through the middle of the room. So this should reduce the span? I haven't seen for sure but i am assuming the joists rest on this wall - and it goes right down to the ground floor. Also, the floor sloped away from this centre point on both sides, which again leads me to believe that its load bearing and the joists rest on top.

Hope that's all the information you need. Grateful for any thoughts, based on my original post in this thread.

James
 
When roofs are converted it usually involves strengthening of the roof members and additional support, as the joists that have been used sound just about OK assuming they have been properly joined I would be concerned for all of the structure. How do you know the central wall was suitable to be used like this? Oh well as it hasn't fallen down it likely won't in the future.
 
OK, ceiling joists normally run front to back i.e. from the base of one pitch to the other. Re the height from ffl to ridge, what is it at present and how much would you be willing to live with ultimately? With your financial restraints, you have intimated, presumably you want to retain the existing floor (slope and all)?
 
Hi Pinenot,

So with the joists, is that a particular problem? Freddymercurystwin seemed to be suggesting that they sounded ok...

Re: the height, I think we can live with it as it is at the mo. I'm building a bedroom (or two if I go for the design you sent) for my two year old (and 3 month old if two beds) so the ceiling height is no problem for them. At least until they grow up a bit, but by that stage we'll either get it done 'properly' or move!
 
I merely asked about the sloping of the joists, not so much the configuration. I worry a little re the plus joist pieces not spanning full length to the external wall, but as I mentioned in an earlier reply re dwanging (sorry noggins) this would help. Easy for me to say, depends if you can gain working access to these ends. If you can, you could certainly consider beefing these up - full depth noggins - steel plate brackets or something like that, 70mm is not a lot of bearing depth to go with...pinenot
 
Thanks All,

This is all really helpful. I think the next step is to get a builder/structural engineer round to have a proper look. It sounds like there's some stuff i could do myself to strengthen the joists further, that i could probably put a partition wall up as it currently is, but if we wanted to do it 'properly' then there'd probably be a bit of further strengthening work to be done.

Cheers.
 

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