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Looking to replace wireless thermostat with smart thermostat help

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by sootyvrs, 11 Dec 2020.

  1. sootyvrs

    sootyvrs

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    Been thinking about changing my Centre wireless thermostat with one that can be controlled via smartphone for the times when we want to put the heating up or down when we are out and about.

    Not sure if we are bothered with any of the smart features like Geo fencing or even multizone heating so cheaper the better really.

    The boiler is Ideal Logic+ combi boiler and I have attached some images of the boiler & wireless receiver which is located in the garage showing the current wiring from the boiler to the receiver and the wiring diagram.

    I would say that I'm OK at DIY so familiar with basics like switching off the power at fuse box when working with mains etc.. and wondering if it's simple task to change to a smart thermostat e.g. Nest, Hive, Tado etc.. myself. I assume I will need one that has a separate wireless receiver that replaces the current one rather than the ones which replace wired thermostats on the wall.

    Any recommendations for smart thermostats (preferably cheaper the better) and one which would be a simple swap with the 4 wires which are currently on place or would it be advisable to get a professional in as it may be more complcated that just screwing in the correct wires from and to the new unit?

    Thanks in advance
     

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  3. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    The ideal halo controller would be excellent for what you want.

    I believe it's opentherm aswell and connects via the low voltage side of the boiler so should save you money.
     
  4. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    Just get a single channel Hive the receiver wiring is simple
    L&N remain the same and the wires in A&B go to 1&3 on the hive single channel receiver, if you prefer the Ideal halo make sure you order the Wifi version if you want to control with your phone
     
  5. ericmark

    ericmark

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    My method is copy and past the boiler details into google and add installation instructions to end, looking at what I find I use the 'find on this page' function and look for key words like "opentherm" and on page 33 I got a hit.

    So the boiler it seems is OpenTherm enabled so you would want the thermostat also to be OpenTherm seems no point changing for any other type. So the next question is which, Hive is not opentherm so that is out, looking at Nest, EvoHome with add on, EPH, Tado etc.

    But first the big question, why do you want to alter temperature with your phone? So first I will give you my experience, I can use my phone to control the central heating, I have 5 devices which can be controlled with a phone anywhere with internet connection for phone, and a further 5 that use bluetooth so work from phone when home, however after the first interest, I stopped using it for most of the time, only thing I do is look at living room temperature in the summer reported from the TRV and decide if the AC wants turning on before we start back.

    The problem is, the house is slow heating and cooling, and even when heating has been off for 8 hours over night, in the morning house still at no lower than 17°C, so the TRV heads have OTT anti-hysteresis software, and if set to 20°C the room heats to 18°C fast, but from 18°C to 20°C it is very slow, only way to heat fast is to set to 22°C for an hour then back down to 20°C, which is what I do.

    However if the TRV will not heat fast for last 2°C then clearly there is no point the wall thermostat changing temperature on it's own, boiler may run and start to cycle or modulate, depending on type, but the room still will not heat up, as the TRV will not let it.

    So it seems looking at the reports, Drayton have the answer, with smart TRV heads, which work out how long it takes to heat the room, so can reheat the room fast, however when you look at the price, think you may have second thoughts.

    But while away from home you don't really need to change the room temperature from 16°C to 20°C all you want to do is switch the heating on/off, and a sonoff switch would do that, but it is the reheat speed, so lets say you have 5 x eQ-3 programmable TRV heads, with simple times set, you can set it up in sequence so kitchen, dinning room, living room and bedrooms are heated on at a time, so only start heating bedroom just before you go to bed, and kitchen is nice and toasty when you get home ready to start preparing evening meal, by time it is prepared the dinning room is warm and kitchen starting to cool, and as you finish the living room is now hot and dinning room starting to cool, this has an add on benefit, if your late home, only a small amount of heating has been used, as only the rooms you had planned to use have been heated, so waste reduced, and you have not had to mess with your phone switching on heating. Plus it saves energy every day, not just the days when schedule has been changed. And you can get a eQ-3 head for £10 each, so not breaking the bank to install, and no wiring.

    The big problem I have found is hysteresis, or over shooting, when we both go out the Nest Gen 3 using geofencing turns the heating off, great, then as we return it turns it back on, again great, but the hall radiator is a good distance from the wall thermostat, two doors between them, and so it over shoots, if I remember when I return and turn the heat down, a couple of degrees no problem, but I forget, then the hall over heats, then the heating turns off until hall cools again, but hall cools slower than living room, so I then get cold, was it worth it? I would have been better for the ½ pint of fuel oil to have simply left it on all day.

    So the only time the geofencing will really help, is when we go on holiday, which is normally in summer anyway, so heating is off. It may have helped in the flat under the main house, so if we meet some one when out we can warm it up before return, but our internet controlled heating has not really worked, because we forget to turn it down when we return, the living room TRV heads are set at one temperature, we turn the main wall thermostat down over night so no need to turn the living room TRV heads down as well, the bedrooms yes, they are not set to heat during the day, then I sit in bedroom playing on the PC and press the eco/comfort button on the TRV anyway so they still heat up.

    The TRV with °C marked on the head yes they have been good, but the internet bit, has been a waste of time and money.
     
  6. sootyvrs

    sootyvrs

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    Thanks for those who have responded so far...

    I would prefer a simple installation for me to do DIY if possible.. Reading up about Opentherm seems a good idea if the boiler supports it but if it means additional config and wiring then this perhaps is not an option for me as I just want a simple replacement.

    Yes the control using the phone is a nice to have and we have lived without it for long enough but we do go away alot on weekends or holidays and the thought of coming back home to a cold house is when we always say "wouldn't it be good to be able to put the heating on now on route home (perhaps an hours drive away or more)..

    The current thermostat is I think on the way out... The LCD display at times goes blank and the time is always inaccurate even if we swapped the batteries out hence why not use this oppotunity to change and save some £ by DIY hopefully.

    The Halo seems there is requirement to change the wiring to a low voltage connection which is perhaps a little more complicated than what I would like to play around with so a simple on/off is fine by quick changing the existing wires hence perhaps Opentherm reconfiguration/wiring is beyond my DIY skills.

    I like the idea of the Hive if it's a quick swap of removing wires and connecting to new replacement unit but still open to easy DIY ideas and recommendations. Thanks
     
  7. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    The Hive single channel is the easiest, you can use Nest if you want opentherm, not a lot of difference in the wiring, there are many fans of opentherm on here, I am not one of them , the savings are miniscule in my humble opinion, I fitted a Hive in my own Gaff and have never thought about changing it, have fitted many others for customers and some are just far too complicated customers hate them , if you are really into geek Gadjets then fill your boots there are many out there that can do many things, most of my customers just want to control their heating
     
  8. sootyvrs

    sootyvrs

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    Is this the one you're referring to single channel below?

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/hive-act...x3ujDRIhcsxV07Mf8YMaAixBEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

    I assume I need the wireless hub to have the phone control when out and about.

    Thanks
     
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  10. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    Yes that is the one you need, sadly they changed the actual thermostat to look more like the nest, the first edition looked far better in my opinion , ande yes you need the Hub to use when away from home, but you can get add ons if you want with it to bring a light on and stuff when you are away to make it as if you are at home
     
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  11. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    The opentherm on the ideal only works with ideals own halo controller.

    To install the halo or the nest it's prety much the same amount of wires.

    As Ian said if the halo make sure you get the WiFi version and NOT the "lite"
     
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  12. sootyvrs

    sootyvrs

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    Just looked at video to install the Ideal Halo wireless and it seems very easy as it connects to the boiler internally via a single connector.

    My only concern is what I need to do with the existing wires connected to the current wireless thermostat receiver if I decide to go this route?
     
  13. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Just remove them.

    The boiler still needs a permanent 230v feed though I believe.
     
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  14. sootyvrs

    sootyvrs

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    Just ordered The Hive as decided that this will give a little more flexibility if we change boiler make in future compared to the Ideal Halo.

    Can I just confirm with you that wire A (brown) goes to 1 and wire B (blue) goes to 3 on the Hive receiver? Thanks
     
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  15. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    yes, but it doesnt matter which way round you do it, the hive is simply a switch, either way round it will work fine but yes the way you suggest is fine
     
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