Low Mains Pressure to my Santon Premier Plus

[Trigg]

After having had a Santon Premier Plus fitted at my previous home I wanted the same luxury at my new home. I asked my plumber to check the mains pressure and if adequate, to fit the Santon (indirect 250 litre).

My plumber tested the pressure by way of turning the kitchen tap on and off. He decided there was plenty of pressure available and fitted the Santon.

It now transpires there is not enough pressure coming from the mains. it takes 20 mins to run a bath and my long awaited power shower is more like a trickle shower

I have been told the solution is to add a tank to the loft and install a pump.

Questions:
1, Does the pump go before or after the Santon?
2, Do I need twin impellor?
3, Any recomendations on make etc?
2, How big should the tank be?

Many thanks in advance
Trigg

 

[Nixt]

Try calling your plumber back and ask why he didn't carry out a proper running pressure with suitable measuring instruments. Your mains-fed, unvented cylinder is not intended to be tank-fed and shower pumped like a traditional vented type, so a solution would be to fit a cold mains accumulator or beaktank & pump to boost the cold inlet pressure.

 

[simond]

Depending on your static water pressure you would be best advised on fitting an accumulator.

However this is not a cheap solution, and were you aware of the need for such additional items you may not have plumped for unvented in the first place.

As my firm's estimator, I am surprised how few plumbers use a flow meter and a pressure gauge when recommending mains fed solutions.

Almost none, according to the customers, who more often than not say 'why are you doing that' when I get the measuring equipment out.

 

[BigBurner]

Best to see if the main pipe can be improved by a new maintap and 22mm pipe from the maintap to the cylinder. If no joy look at installing a larger bore mains pipe. If still no joy then fit an accumulator.

 

[ChrisR]

Before you go for some idea someone who hasn't seen the system recommends, you do need a suitable person to inspect it all. I've lost count of the number of times we've looked at mains flow problems which have been resolved simply by opening the stop cock.

In the same way that some salesman will shout "megaflow" without finding out whether it's really appropriate, other salesman as above, will try to flog you an accumulator.

You need a competent engineer to survey and advise.

 

[Nixt]

Before you go for some idea someone who hasn't seen the system recommends, you do need a suitable person to inspect it all. I've lost count of the number of times we've looked at mains flow problems which have been resolved simply by opening the stop cock.

In the same way that some salesman will shout "megaflow" without finding out whether it's really appropriate, other salesman as above, will try to flog you an accumulator.

You need a competent engineer to survey and advise.

Hang on, of course the advice given assumes the cause is correct. No-one stands to sell the OP anything.

 

[simond]

Hang on, of course the advice given assumes the cause is correct. No-one stands to sell the OP anything.

ChrisR wants to call me a salesman, he considers it a form of insult. Unfortunately, for his insult to carry any credence, I have to be a salesman (which I am not) and I have to be able to sell the OP an accumulator (which I can't).

I do however concur with the view that getting someone to look at it who understands unvented systems will be of benefit.

 

[Trigg]

Thanks all for your advice.

My plumber claims to have called Santon about this problem and they advised to fit a pump!
The consensus here seems to be to fit an accumulator, im not sure what that is but I can look into it.

A neighbour tells me that the water pressure was turned down in our road some time ago, due to the fact there were regular pipe bursts at the top of the road. So it looks like I am lumbered with the low pressure coming in.

I think this is the first unvented cylinder installation by my plumber, I will buy him a pressure gauge for Christmas!

Trigg

 

[Agile]

I think this is the first unvented cylinder installation by my plumber, I will buy him a pressure gauge for Christmas!

Trigg

Did anyone tell you that its necessary to have a special qualification before fitting an unvented cylinder?

Even if you did not know then your plumber should know that and should have told you if he was qualified or not.

In my rather strict view he has been negligent in fitting an expensive cylinder without ensuring that the mains water suppkly is suitable.

If he is not qualified to fit it then he ought to have told you and should refund the whole labour cost as he should not have started the job. Legally you are probably entitled to damages from him although I dont encourage people claiming them from people who are just stupid.

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

ChrisR wants to call me a salesman, he considers it a form of insult. Unfortunately, for his insult to carry any credence, I have to be a salesman (which I am not) and I have to be able to sell the OP an accumulator (which I can't).

The cap fits. SimonD tells us his sales of accumulators have increased since he started ranting on about them on this site.
He claims to be something of a specialist in them.
He often promotes their use without getting sufficient facts, and doesn't mention other solutions, which could be better.
They're an easy fit high profit installation.
He publishes his identity so people find him.

It seems to me he is using this site to sell people a profitable device they may not need.

I do however concur with the view that getting someone to look at it who understands unvented systems will be of benefit.

About time too. Alleluyiah. So why pronounce what is best without knowing the facts?
Answer: as above.

I suppose you can fool some of the people some of the time.

 

[BigBurner]

This unvented cylinder can easily be converted to a vented system using a tank and a power shower pump and all the unvented controls left in place. When the water mains in the road improves it can be an easy 1/2 hour job to switch over to an unvented system and the tank left in place. Maybe the tank can provide the feed to the toilets, so in case of a cut the toilets work

 

[simond]

ChrisR wrote

It seems to me he is using this site to sell people a profitable device they may not need.

Accumulators can be bought at most major plumbing merchants. I am recommending them here where they may be of use. In time, they will be common knowledge and then I won't need to mention them, the trade will be fitting them wherever the application merits. Hopefully the price will come down too.

You can make all the personal attacks you like but I am not going to change my views (and experience) to concur with you.

You can't tell me how to vote, and you can't help me design heating and hot water installations. Although I am happy to admit that I am always learning.

So lay off the personal comments, they detract from the forum, and undermine both of us.

 

[gas4you]

Simon, as I know absolutley nothing about accumulators, do you need a special ticket to fit them, or just an un-vented or none at all ?

 

[simond]

You don't need any specialist tickets, Dave.

If you have an application give me a call, and I will talk you through it. Shouldn't take you more than a couple of minutes!

They go very well with Vaillant 937s, for instance. Approximately half the 937s from here go out with an accumulator.

No point in fitting an expensive and capable boiler if the water horsepower isn't there in the first place.

 

[gas4you]

You don't need any specialist tickets, Dave.

If you have an application give me a call, and I will talk you through it. Shouldn't take you more than a couple of minutes!

They go very well with Vaillant 937s, for instance. Approximately half the 937s from here go out with an accumulator.

No point in fitting an expensive and capable boiler if the water horsepower isn't there in the first place.

Cheers, will bear that in mind