Message for D_Hailsam+need good heating engineer in Perth

[fluff29]

Hopefully D_Hailsam answers this question as he knows the background, although I have hopefully inserted link to previous long post.

[/url]http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=198642&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45 Further to my postings before...e an efficient way to run my system. fluff

 

[tamz]

Dining Rm H600 x W1600mm - K2 (this is the rad which won't fully heat even when room not up to temp)

This size radiator will never heat evenly fed from 8mm even if you left it on continuously for a month on its own. There will never be enough water running through it! More than likely long runs to the manifold, probably from the kitchen which will make it even worse. Even your bedroom rads are pushing it for 8mm but the runs are probably shorter. Kinks and bashes are common on microbore which doesn't help big rads.
Get the rad repiped in 15mm and it will be sorted. Then get the system properly balanced.

You have no blockages in the pipes so forget the powerflush. The big difference in return temp is due to the amount you have checked the lockshields back. It's a microbore system and needs very little balancing.

Just read through 4 pages of nonsense to find out what was obvious from your 4th post where you mentioned the size being 600 x 1400. It's a good job i'm an insomniac

 

[Agile]

Thats a very simple explanation of your problem.

I know that householders seem to expect that there is always a cheap solution to any problem however serious.

This evening I was asked how much we charge for power flushing. The system was on a Potty insurance and their fewllow said it needed power flushing. I asked a few questions and discovered that it probably does not need power flushing at all.

So the caller asked if I could come round and see whats wrong and give a quote for fixing it!

Alarm Bells !!!! I had to explain that the diagnosis is the most important part of any remedial work and we ALWAYS charge for diagnosing faults. If you cannot imagine, after wasting an hour to diagnose for free, he would then smile and say "well thanks Tony for telling us that, now we will have to get Potty to fix it for us!

Tony

 

[tamz]

That will be a virtual £48 + vat for ma last post then

 

[fluff29]

Tamz

Would I need to get the rad repiped all the way from the manifold or could a plumber partially re-pipe it from near the rad?

The reason I ask this, is I had to get another new rad put in the living room. As I was moving from one wall to another with a change of pipe direction, there was not enough pipe to stretch to the new wall. The plumber put a new run of 15mm pipe from the valves on the rad to the old microbore - about a foot away from the rad.

I am thinking that I may also need to do this with a couple of the larger bedroom rads that I put in.

Since you are up around my area, you wouldn't happen to know a good plumber in my area that could do this work for me?

Thanks

Fluff

 

[lifesagasman]

i've found that 8mm can work very well, although i would never install it myself (min 10mm). there's loads round here fully piped in 8 which work until the major drawback kicks in, it clogs up too readily.
recently added a 600 x 1500 rad by t-ing off the 8mm upstairs. i said it might not work but the customer did not want her floors lifting, so in it went and it's as hot as you like.

logically, full open 8mm can flow as much as a locked down 15mm pipe

 

[tamz]

Tamz

Would I need to get the rad repiped all the way from the manifold or could a plumber partially re-pipe it from near the rad?
Fluff

Rad has to be repiped all the way back to the main runs (the 22mm) before the manifold and the existing 8mm blanked off. No problem if there is room under the floor. If not you will need some carpets lifting.

The plumber put a new run of 15mm pipe from the valves on the rad to the old microbore - about a foot away from the rad.

He never had any 8mm with him.

I am thinking that I may also need to do this with a couple of the larger bedroom rads that I put in.

It won't do any harm. Take them from before manifolds as well.

Since you are up around my area, you wouldn't happen to know a good plumber in my area that could do this work for me?

Never up that way much. Last time was doing some work at the big pensions place at the top of Dundee.

http://www.snipef.org/index.htm

Put in your postcode and take your pick. All fully trained and experienced guys.

 

[fluff29]

thanks for that link tamz.

 

[lifesagasman]

Hopefully D_Hailsam answers this question as he knows the background, although I have hopefully inserted link to previous long post.

[/url]http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=198642&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45 I had the original plumber fi...d of gunge and restore it to it's full output

 

[Agile]

One plumber will look at the job for £40+VAT to see what is wrong - strongly considering this guy. He also wants to do a powerflush but I have asked him to have a look to first to see if anything else is wrong.

fluff

I dont know why you have such an aversion to paying what seems to be a very cheap price.

We charge a fixed price diagnostic fee of £84 and that is only half of what we charge yet you still seem to think its too much.

The guy has got to eat and put petrol in his vehicle. Most costs are the same in Perth as in London so if he is competent he should also be charging over £80 to come out and diagnose your problem.

You either do the work yourself or you pay someone. The expression about peanuts and monkeys comes to mind!

Tony

 

[fluff29]

Hi Agile

Sorry you seem to have picked me up wrong thinking that I don't want to pay the £40 for the guy to have a look - which I am more than happy to pay.

I have spoken to 3 plumbers. I told them what has been done to date and they have all said that a powerflush would be necessary, even though there is no sludge in the pipes and they haven't seen the job. Which goes against all the great advice I have been given on here.

I asked the plumber, that I mentioned above, if he would diagnose the fault and he quoted the price above, which I am more than happy with. The problem if that in his mind he thinks that a powerflush will fix all my problems.

I really need a good plumber who can diagnose the fault then fix it. I am happy to pay a fee for them to diagnose, I just want it fixed. However, I don't want to spend £500 on a powerflush and then I still don't have hot radiators as there is not enough water flowing through them.

At the moment I am looking to take tamz advice and get the problem rad repiped. However, as you will understand someone is giving advice over the internet which is not the same as seeing the system in the flesh, diagnosing the fault then fixing it.

Thank you again for your thoughts.

Fluff

 

[Agile]

Sorry if I misinterpreted your intentions.

There are two problems, actually fixing the problem and the plumber making a good fee!

8mm systems whilst seeming to have clean water are very prone to blockages as the pipes are so small. Often a mains water flush will blast a blockage out.

Its very difficult to actually power flush an 8 mm system so thats not always a solution.

Many of us who are not into just charging for a powerflush ( thats about £350 in London ! ) find that with 8 mm treating with an acid cleaner is quicker, cheaper and more effective. But thats going to cause old valves to leak.

Tony

 

[fluff29]

Hi Agile

No offence taken.

Biggest problem I have seen from the replies I received on here is that everyone has a different answer, and I understand that there may be various problems with the heating system as I am new to this house. However, it is very difficult when I phone various plumbers and they seem reluctant to fault find and would rather just powerflush.

Anything, sorry for taking up so much of your time and thank you very much for your responses.

Fluff