Minimum pricing on Alcohol

[NickS601]

want you to think very carefully about this.

As people are living longer, how exactly is an alcahol "related" death defined.

The average age for alcahol related deaths is 55-74 (no information is published to say what proportion are nearer 74 than 55), the average life expectancy being 80 years.

In 1970 the average life expectancy was 68 years, how many of these people die directly due to alcahol, or alcahol "related"!

Good points/questions Aron, and I think most of us would look for statistics that tend to back up our point of view and also how you chose to interpret/present facts.

If I'm in a room with 10 alcoholics I might say massive drink problem. Same room with 10 Plymouth Bretheren - no problem. Same room with the previously mentioned 20 people has the drink problem halved or shot up?

How is alcohol related death defined - if you are killed by a driver under the influence of alcohol is that an alcohol related death or not. again it depends on your point of view.

I personally think there are issues in this country with alcohol abuse/dependancy however a minimum pricing policy on alcohol won't resolve it. America had prohibition that didn't stop Americans drinking, just made a small illegally acting minority rich.

 

[dhutch]

On of the other things is, we as a nation do tend to do more of the 'rowdy drunkeness on the street' than a lot of other countries, who peicefully drink themselfs to death in small groups. Same number of deaths, possabily even simular heathcare costs, but less noticeable and objectionalble on a day to day basis.

Again, its the minority, and I expect in the main, not people who over lap with this forums members, and is not only in the UK, but its certainly not uncommon.


Daniel

 

[AronSearle]

but I do support something being done and have heard worse suggestions.


Daniel

Which is why you are playing right into their hands.

We already have some of the highest alcahol duties, most supermarkets require ID at 25 (being ID'd at 30 ****es me off), the strictest rules on alcahol advertising in the world (And the ASA say that, not me).

In Europe our alcoholic related deaths are lower than average.

But "something must be done"?

Like I said, people like you allow a constant trickle of new laws to be legislated, and it's down to nothing more than government driven puritanism.

But on another level it seems mad that supermarkets can use 'loss-leader' alcohol to draw punters into there stores.

Is it, why?

 

[dhutch]

Is it, why?

Just seems counter productive given our apprent atitude to alcohol.

But your right, going along within questioning it it is exactly what there after and doesnt nesserally get you the right thing or want you want.

Not however, might I add, that dismising any action made as rubbish, or saying we dont have a problem, or thats its just all in our heads.

It is all in our heads, if you take a load of brits to france we'd do exactly the same, but interestingly, typically, while not without exception, the french dont.


Daniel

 

[ABCwarrior]

Best thing is that maybe people will stop buying booze and start buying other drugs instead.....you know, those illegal (untaxed!) ones they tell us are so bad for us yet people can take for years without the same destructive capacity as booze to every aspect of their lives. That'll teach the nanny state when their income falls....
I know more folk who've been in and out of hospital with "sports/activity" related injuries being a far greater burden to the NHS, and I don't know anyone who's been hospitalised due to drink. Considering I'm a Scotsman that's even more bizarre.....

 

[AronSearle]

if you take a load of brits to france we'd do exactly the same, but interestingly, typically, while not without exception, the french dont.

Violent crimes "caused" by alcohol (% of total violent crimes).

Germany 25%
France 25%
England and wales* 50%
Finland 65%
Norway 80%
Sweden 85%


*Lol at Scotland being counted separately.


Now before you go "AHA" we have twice as much alcahol "related" crime as france.


France has a similar number of violent crimes per X as the UK.

Hmmmmm, so are the french 25% more violent without the need for alcahol, or is it all just boll-ox.

 

[joinerjohn]

If the truth is known, the breweries would rather we bought our beer and lager in cans from the supermarkets. Simple reason is it costs them less to package it in cans than it does to put it in barrels. So if and when the government introduce, minimum prices, you can bet your ass, the brewers will use that as an excuse to put their prices up as well. (ever noticed that many a chancellor has said on budget day "This will mean 2p on a pint of beer.",,, then the following week your local puts it up 10p or even 20p?)

 

[ladylola]

Very true John. In the first news report I heard it said the minimum price "won't" effect the price in the pub nut in a latter report it seemed to have changed to "shouldn't". I can also remember in one of the budgets that beer from micro breweries was to be taked at a lower rate than mass produced but have yet to see any difference in the pubs .

 

[AronSearle]

If the truth is known, the breweries would rather we bought our beer and lager in cans from the supermarkets.

I also hear farmers get a better deal from selling to supermarkets

 

[big-all]

Very true John. In the first news report I heard it said the minimum price "won't" effect the price in the pub nut in a latter report it seemed to have changed to "shouldn't". I can also remember in one of the budgets that beer from micro breweries was to be taked at a lower rate than mass produced but have yet to see any difference in the pubs .

i recon a minimum 20% increase in pubs maybe 33% overall
you remove all the main competitors [offies and supermarkets] off course prices will rise

 

[joe-90]

When I was a teen bitter and mild had an alcohol strength of 1.9 proof - now it's about 5.4 proof. The answer is simple - reduce the alcohol content.

 

[joinerjohn]

Watneys Red Barrel (available in Part 4's and Party 7's) was about 3.6% alcohol. Ind Coope's Double Diamond, was about 3%. So I don't know what sort of beer you were drinking Joe.

 

[joe-90]

It was the house bitter.

 

[joinerjohn]

Many local breweries produced beer of a fairly good strength. A shame that so many breweries have been lost over the years. We had a few round here, Shipstones brewery in Nottingham produced an excellent bitter. Hardy Hansons made Kimberley Ale. Mansfield Bitter is now made in Yorkshire (and is completely different from the stuff Mansfield Brewery produced) All of the independent brewers in Burton Upon Trent have almost all gone now, taken over by the big companies like Coors.
The upside though is the proliferation of micro breweries all over the country, now producing some excellent real ales.
"Long live Beer"

 

[ladylola]

Heard yesterday on the news that parliment is discussing wheather to ban the use of liquid nitrogen in drinks.
Now if we are to believe the governments stance that a minimum price for alcohol will stop binge drinking surely a minimum price for liquid nitrogen will stop people drinking it. Obvious really.