missing earth in pending lights

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Hi,
1) done some work in an office, it was a simple job, to replace existing pendant lights to new ones. While the work was done, no changes were made to the circuit, no lights were added and of the values of the bulbs are the same. No earth was found for the lights wiring, (I know that this is a common thing), the wires coming out through holes in a solid concrete ceiling. The ceiling height is 2.5m.
My question is: Would it be OK (according to the regs.) to leave the system as is or I should add the missing earth (I wanted to do it but it looks a very complicaed issue, no access from the loft and the concrete ceiling, I will do it only if it is required by the regs.).
2) In this office there is a boiler room, it is about 2mx2m size, and it has in it the boiler and the CU (3 phase) and other rubbish. I had to add a double socket to an existing 13A F/S. I used T&E+cpc 2.5mm2, I clipped the T&E to the wall. Is there any reason why the cable should be in conduit or trunking? As far as I understand trunking and conduits are used for mechanical protection of the cable, conduit will be used with single core. The external sheath in a T&E basically is there for the same reason. Have I done it wrong?
Thanks
Albert
 
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Hi Albert, the absence of a cpc in a lighting circuit is not ideal but is acceptable so long as you don't use light fittings with exposed metallic parts that require an earth. That is, if there is nothing to bond to then EEBADS is not feasible.

Clipping T & E direct to the wall is also acceptable, depending on the exposure to mechanical abrasion. The boiler room/store sounds fine.
 
Hi and thanks
What is 'EEBADS'?
unfortunately the base is metallic, this is the reason I asked, (I mentioned the height 2.5m, it can't be reached by stretching your arms), I know that earth should be applied where ever it is possible. What is the solution in this case?
 
Albert said:
What is 'EEBADS'?
C'mon Albert, you're pulling my plonker, surely? Weren't you at college last year doing a 2360 or similar?
Earthed Equipotential Bonding and Automatic Disconnection of Supply. (Some organisations just call it EEBAD, without the 'S')
Albert said:
unfortunately the base is metallic, this is the reason I asked, (I mentioned the height 2.5m, it can't be reached by stretching your arms), I know that earth should be applied where ever it is possible. What is the solution in this case?
Ah, now this is a problem because it means that should that metallic base become live there is no protective earth to cause disconnection. In other words it will remain live. Being out of reach doesn't count when somebody decides to go up a ladder to change a lamp. You really need to either change the fittings to Class II ('double insulated') or install a circuit protective conductor.
 
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dingbat said:
Albert said:
What is 'EEBADS'?
C'mon Albert, you're pulling my plonker, surely? Weren't you at college last year doing a 2360 or similar?
Earthed Equipotential Bonding and Automatic Disconnection of Supply. (Some organisations just call it EEBAD, without the 'S')

Firstly thanks, this was the answer that I was worried of, is there an easy way to solve the problem (and still comply ?).

Secondly I was in college last year, and attended all the lessons without exception and even past nicely part 1, I'm still in college doing part 2, and will be in college next year for 2391, yet never heard about EEBAD, until today...As they say a day you learnt nothing is a lost day... I didn't lose the day thanks to you.
Albert

By the way how spot lights fit in this issue as they are mostly metal and I don't remember that they had a point to connect the earth
 
<the wires coming out through holes in a solid concrete ceiling>

Is it really just a hole or is there a conduit box up there?

If the wiring reaches the pendant lights via conduit in the concrete surely it's worth exploring a bit further to confirm that the joints are screwed. In which case, surely, you've got a CPC, as long as it's connected at the source end.

If the conduit can't be shown (by testing) to be a reliable enough connection to serve as a CPC, my next question would be is there room to pull in a suitable CPC. In this case, if there is a conduit box above each lamp, it'd need to be connected to the CPC.

Or have I got the wrong picture?
 
BruisedThumb said:
<the wires coming out through holes in a solid concrete ceiling>

Is it really just a hole or is there a conduit box up there? etc...
No you have the right idea, I'm going there in a few min. and will investigate...

As I asked in my previous message, how do the spot lights fit in this issue, I am talking about 230V (not ELV)? As far as I remember the fittings had only phase and neutral and no earth connection.
 
I fitted some mains spotlights the other day..

Its said it was class 2 and required no earth terminal..

Yet there was one provided... I decided to use it anyway. Seems odd to fit one, yet say its not required.

David
 
dw3101 said:
I fitted some mains spotlights the other day..

Its said it was class 2 and required no earth terminal..

Yet there was one provided... I decided to use it anyway. Seems odd to fit one, yet say its not required.

David
I find it strange as the fitting is metal, so there is no difference from other metal lighting mountings.
May be someone can explain this one...
Thanks
Albert
 
Albert, if the arrangement of the live conductors (phase and neutral) and terminals in the lamp is such that the metallic case of the light fitting cannot become accidentally live then the lights may be classed as 'double insulated' and bear the double square symbol. See here
 
dingbat said:
Albert, if the arrangement of the live conductors (phase and neutral) and terminals in the lamp is such that the metallic case of the light fitting cannot become accidentally live then the lights may be classed as 'double insulated' and bear the double square symbol. See here
Thanks
Albert
 
so if lights are single phase and you only need to connect the live and neutral what do you do with the earth, strip it back or what?
 
Make it safe in choc-block. Do not cut it back - if you do that, what would happen if you wanted to change the luminaire for one that needed an earth?
 
yes... point noted it's about thinking ahead, for example using a 2 way switch instead of a one just in case one day... you never know
 
If you earth a DI fitting, you are invariably doing more harm than good.
 

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