more cracked plaster :(

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Hi,

As the title suggests its another cracked plaster problem. I bought a new house which had been empty for a few years prior to me purchasing (repo).

I've had the builders in for a few months with ceilings replaced and walls stripped back to brick, bonded and re-plastered.

Unfortunately they didn't do a great job levelling the ceilings or walls. Didn't bother battening ceilings which they've now "corrected" (atleast visually) by fillering and applying coving. The walls I think they left the old bonding/sand cement in certain areas and when they filled gaps added too much in some areas.

In the main living room I had to call in another plasterer to correct this (as despite promises his plasterer didn't reappear to fix the problem), as there were areas where there was a 20mm diff within a radius of 50mm (don't ask me how they managed this, there were chimnees removed from this wall, but the problems are not restricted to those areas).

The new plasterer first attempted to remove excess bonding, but then advised it would take forever and may damage some of the bricks in the party wall (perhaps just got fedup of fixing someone elses mistake). Instead he added more bonding to correct as much as possible (looks level to the eye and differences are within reasonable tolerance). Then skimmed over the top.

He did apply uPVA (I watched him and had to buy a few bottles) and everything looked fine for month or so. However, he did warn since the old plaster was only 6 weeks old and quite alot of bonding and plaster was on the wall, that it may crack.

Unfortunately that prediction has come true, and the main wall (10m x 2.6m) has now developed several cracks. From tapping the wall in certain places it seems the plaster has come away from the wall as it produces a hollower noise.

The plasterer (who I know through a close friend) has advised to wait for the cracks to settle then clean with a knife and fill. He's said if the problem re-appears he will return to rectify it. Another builder friends has instead advised to apply plasterboard and re-skim. The contractor who's original plasterer/workmen created the problem has suggested filling with no more cracks.

MY two questions are:

1) Is repairing the cracks plausible or should I just bite the bullet and re-do the wall?

2) Who is telling the truth? I'm inclined to believe the new plasterer, as he was upfront from the begining there was a chance of cracks. And our mutual friend provides him with alot of work, so he is unlikely to risk getting caught lieng to me. However, the contractor is implying it is the new plasterers fault and he didn't apply enough uPVA. That could ofcourse be the reason or he could be trying to deflect attention from his workers who caused the problem in the first place.

Other then a quick test, the heating has not been on. And the neighbouring property is emmpty so the heating has not been on in there either.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice you can provide.
 
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Forgot to add, used:

Wickes Hardwall
Wickes PVA
Wickes Multi-finish

On outer wall which was done from scratch by the new plasterer (as contractors plastere walked and never came back) he used sand cement. That wall seems to be ok, othe then hairline crack where lintel is over large window and french door.
 
what you have done by getting another spread has given the first spread an excuse to blame the new spread and vise versa , the new spread should not have used hardwall on top of multi, hardwall is an undercoat for use with no pva and its made to go on bricks and blocks and suction is used to hold it to the wall not pva, thistle bonding would have been a better choice to level the wall out(after pvaing), and the contactor has recommended no more cracks as a fix? thats a complete joke
i would go back to the contractor and tell him to fix it, but now you have had another spread go over his bad work it gives him an exuse to say no,
something needs to be done either save as much of the wall as you can, or redo it this time with competent spread
 
what you have done by getting another spread has given the first spread an excuse to blame the new spread and vise versa , the new spread should not have used hardwall on top of multi, hardwall is an undercoat for use with no pva and its made to go on bricks and blocks and suction is used to hold it to the wall not pva, thistle bonding would have been a better choice to level the wall out(after pvaing), and the contactor has recommended no more cracks as a fix? thats a complete joke
i would go back to the contractor and tell him to fix it, but now you have had another spread go over his bad work it gives him an exuse to say no,
something needs to be done either save as much of the wall as you can, or redo it this time with competent spread

Thankyou for taking the time to respond and your advice.

I was reluctant to get someone else in, however the contractor left me no choice by repeatedly lying about when the plasterer would come in to fix the problem. After over a month of waiting and half the job being held up, I told him tomorrow or I get someone else in.

I will chase the new guy now and highlight his error in using hardwall. Makes it a bit easier when I can tell him what he's done wrong.

However, I assume the cracks will continue to appear if the hardwall won't bond to the PVA'd/scored multifinish?

If so, then my only real option is to strip back the wall and re-do? Or would applying plasterboard and skimming work?
 
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what you have done by getting another spread has given the first spread an excuse to blame the new spread and vise versa , the new spread should not have used hardwall on top of multi, hardwall is an undercoat for use with no pva and its made to go on bricks and blocks and suction is used to hold it to the wall not pva, thistle bonding would have been a better choice to level the wall out(after pvaing), and the contactor has recommended no more cracks as a fix? thats a complete joke
i would go back to the contractor and tell him to fix it, but now you have had another spread go over his bad work it gives him an exuse to say no,
something needs to be done either save as much of the wall as you can, or redo it this time with competent spread

Thankyou for taking the time to respond and your advice.

I was reluctant to get someone else in, however the contractor left me no choice by repeatedly lying about when the plasterer would come in to fix the problem. After over a month of waiting and half the job being held up, I told him tomorrow or I get someone else in.

I will chase the new guy now and highlight his error in using hardwall. Makes it a bit easier when I can tell him what he's done wrong.

However, I assume the cracks will continue to appear if the hardwall won't bond to the PVA'd/scored multifinish?

If so, then my only real option is to strip back the wall and re-do? Or would applying plasterboard and skimming work?
putting board up and skimming would work but it would be an inferior spec as you have already paid to have float and set, would you be happy with the plasterboard? i doubt it, how much has actually blown? is it what the second spread did? i would be tempted to hack off the cracked and blown and replace with thistle bonding then i suppose its another skim
 
the new spread should not have used hardwall on top of multi, hardwall is an undercoat for use with no pva and its made to go on bricks and blocks and suction is used to hold it to the wall not pva

Hi Steve. Agree Hardwall is an undercoat plaster for on top of bricks/blocks etc.

I had to do a patch of repair a while ago and confess I did use PVA first on the blocks to control suction - just to be safe. It's been ok 6 months on.
Is it wrong to use PVA under hardwall on brick/block?
Or is normally just a wetting will suffice, as Hardwall is less demanding than Bonding?
 
what you have done by getting another spread has given the first spread an excuse to blame the new spread and vise versa , the new spread should not have used hardwall on top of multi, hardwall is an undercoat for use with no pva and its made to go on bricks and blocks and suction is used to hold it to the wall not pva, thistle bonding would have been a better choice to level the wall out(after pvaing), and the contactor has recommended no more cracks as a fix? thats a complete joke
i would go back to the contractor and tell him to fix it, but now you have had another spread go over his bad work it gives him an exuse to say no,
something needs to be done either save as much of the wall as you can, or redo it this time with competent spread

Thankyou for taking the time to respond and your advice.

I was reluctant to get someone else in, however the contractor left me no choice by repeatedly lying about when the plasterer would come in to fix the problem. After over a month of waiting and half the job being held up, I told him tomorrow or I get someone else in.

I will chase the new guy now and highlight his error in using hardwall. Makes it a bit easier when I can tell him what he's done wrong.

However, I assume the cracks will continue to appear if the hardwall won't bond to the PVA'd/scored multifinish?

If so, then my only real option is to strip back the wall and re-do? Or would applying plasterboard and skimming work?
putting board up and skimming would work but it would be an inferior spec as you have already paid to have float and set, would you be happy with the plasterboard? i doubt it, how much has actually blown? is it what the second spread did? i would be tempted to hack off the cracked and blown and replace with thistle bonding then i suppose its another skim

Essentially its just the 10m x 2.6m wall. As thats where the second plasterer had to do the most work to correct and level.

The other walls the original plasterer did were correctable (atleast to a reasonable level by filler/sanding). And the remaining walls the second plasterer did from scratch and they seem fine.

The only other concern is the ceiling adjacent to the cracked wall, which the second plasterer also corrected. Although it was mostly just multifinish as he corrected the edges so the ceiling and lines looked true to the eye.

I guess either way it will have to be chipped back as otherwise the radiator pipes and other bits will have to be moved (as if I just apply plaster board the wall will come too far out, its already at the limits of fixtures). In which case it probly makes sense to simply bond again, as the messy work is in chipping it all back.

Quite alot of the wall has cracked now, with large 3 large cracks and several smaller ones. Whats more concerning is some of the cracks have formed large squares, which makes me think those portions are likely to fall out the moment someone tries to hang a picture.

Thanks again for the advice.
 
the new spread should not have used hardwall on top of multi, hardwall is an undercoat for use with no pva and its made to go on bricks and blocks and suction is used to hold it to the wall not pva

Hi Steve. Agree Hardwall is an undercoat plaster for on top of bricks/blocks etc.

I had to do a patch of repair a while ago and confess I did use PVA first on the blocks to control suction - just to be safe. It's been ok 6 months on.
Is it wrong to use PVA under hardwall on brick/block?
Or is normally just a wetting will suffice, as Hardwall is less demanding than Bonding?
hi newb hardwall is made to go on brick and blockwork if you have high suction you can use a very diluted pva mix of say 6-1 ratio to help control it, you don't want to kill the suction off completely as this is what pulls it into the wall, if you look on the actual bag of hardwall itself it says do not use on backgrounds that has been treated with bonding agents, also what the spread has done in this case is sandwich a coat of hardwall between two coats of skim bonded out with pva not a practice i would recomend
 
It seems to me, that people doing your job are blaming each other, and passing the buck. No plasterer in his right mind, would come in to repair another plasterer's bodge up, and then say it might crack again. I wouldn't dream of doing a job and then tell the customer it might crack again,,, bite the bullet, rip it "all" off, start again, and have it done properly by someone who knows what they're doing. Raking out the cracks and filling them up is a waste of time and money,,, you shouldn't have to do that. I'd rip it all off.
 
I don't think I'd rip it out just because of a few cracks. Just fill them until it settles.
 
Got to agree with roughcaster here, even more so if the surrounding areas of the cracks sound hollow, those cracks will never stop appearing as the plaster will be moving and what ever you put in the crack will fall out time after time. Strip it back and get it done properly, then you can forget about it and relax :)
 
If it was just a few cracks, then as Joe said, i'd fill em up,, but if there are areas of the wall plaster that is hollow/suspect,,, then it would need to be removed.
 
Most Victorian properties have blown plaster/render but they've stood for over a 100 years. If it falls off then fix it - if it doesn't - then that's good enough reason to leave it.
 
That may be acceptable to somone with 100 year old plaster, this plaster isn't even 1 year old. Really Joe, if someone did this work to your house you would just accept it and keep filling the cracks all the time? This guy deserves to gave a fairly straight and true wall that should definately be sound and crack free, after all thats what he has paid for....TWICE!
 
If he wants to pay a third time then good luck to him. Personally I'd see how it went first.
 

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