More lies from the Resigners

[Gerrydelasel]

if there is a downturn they will lay off uk workers first because our poor workers rights
thats why dagenham production went else where because it was cheaper to pay off uk workers than workers in other eu countries

I don't follow? Are you saying our workers rights are currently worse than those of other European countries, which is why they abandoned Dagenham?
If that is the case while we are in the EU, then what benefit is the EU to workers rights?

The threats of corporations are as worthless as they are meaningless; the entitled demands of spoilt children.Toyota threatened to leave the UK back in 2000 if we didn't join the Euro. They're still here.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/jan/18/emu.theeuro

 

[JohnD]

I don't know how to quote correctly

But here's a fifteen-year-old newspaper cutting that says

"The figures are not yet available, but we posted a very significant loss in the UK last year," said Shinro Iwatsuki, director in charge of European operations. "I would imagine that Ford, Vauxhall and Rover are in a similar position.""

Can you see the words "threaten to leave?" I can't, so I shall make them up.

 

[noseall]

Pi$$ed mesel laughing at the above post. 'Must try harder' eh Gerrydeisel.

 

[handyjack]

Well worth a look.
http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

 

[Gerrydelasel]

But here's a fifteen-year-old newspaper cutting

The age of the article is the point.

Can you see the words "threaten to leave?" I can't, so I shall make them up.

If you squint you can just about make out the headline:
"Toyota threat to quit UK over euro"

 

[JohnD]

the headline

You mean the words of the newspaper, not the words of the company.

 

[JohnD]

Well worth a look.

It's lovely to see the Flouncers making up stories so they can disagree with them.

"BRITAIN WILL BE EXCLUDED FROM TRADE WITH THE EU BY TARIFF BARRIERS"

I have not seen the Remain campaign say that trade will stop.

Obviously, however, if you resign from the membership of the world's largest trading group, you can expect to see a reduction in trade. Do you deny it?

"It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself."

And yet the Resigners say they would exit the treaties which currently exist, and would want different rules. So who is doing the "disruption?"

"LEGALLY, BRITAIN CANNOT LEAVE THE EU"
Pure fiction, made out by the Outists. I have no idea why they made it up. Since handy is spreading this nonsense, perhaps he can explain.

 

[handyjack]

Since handy is spreading this nonsense, perhaps he can explain.

“I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.”

 

[Doggit]

What he doesn’t say is that our exports to the EU are 13% of our economy, while their exports to us are only 3% of their economy.

So, we’d be the big losers from a trade war.

Now is that adjusting statistcs, or not really understanding them.

We export 44% of our goods to the EU, and they export 8% (or 17% according to one of the fact groups) to us, but the EU economy is 11 times the size of ours, so they are really exporting about between 2 and 4 times to us, than we do to them. And nothing changes on the 24th, or for the period of 2 years after we give notice under article 50, and whilst Cameron insists he'll do that immediately, experts suggest he should wait about 4 years to give notice, so the negotiators have got a proper amount of time to finalise the deal.

And as most of the EU economies are in decline, the amount we can export to them will decline, so their trade to us will be even more important to them, so to put up trade barriers will only cut their own throats. Cameron Et al, have told everyone how dire things will be if we leave, and in panicking the financial markets, will create a self fulfilling prophecy, but markets being what they are, things will soon settle back, but the EU won't - lthough Junkers recent comments seem to suggest they know they've got to change or die.

The question remains, if we decide to stay, will they breathe a sigh of relief, and carry on in their old sweet sod everyone else ways.

 

[Brigadier]

Pi$$ed mesel laughing at the above post. 'Must try harder' eh Gerrydeisel.

That can happen, if you don't do your exercises.

 

[Doggit]

if there is a downturn they will lay off uk workers first because our poor workers rights mean its cheaper to fire or lay off a uk worker over italian french spanish or german or indeed most other well developed economies in the eu
thats why dagenham production went else where because it was cheaper to pay off uk workers than workers in other eu countries

One of the main reasons that Nissan etc base their factories in the UK, is that unlike the French that will only work 35 hours a week, and will strike at the drop of a hat, our unions are now far more flexible than any other country. The reason that Dagenham lost it's car industries, was due to the bolshy unions doing what the French now do, so whilst is definitely possible that they could transfer jobs if an import tariff was ever imposed, it's highly unlikely that they'd decommission a UK factory, and try and get the French to increase production.

 

[JohnD]

Boris Johnson, and Foxtrot Ice, says we’ll get a good trade deal with the European Union because Germany wants to sell us BMWs.

What he doesn’t say is that our exports to the EU are 13% of our economy, while their exports to us are only 3% of their economy.

So, we’d be the big losers from a trade war.

Now is that adjusting statistcs, or not really understanding them.

We export 44% of our goods to the EU,

It appears that you do not understand the difference between total production, and exports. Obviously exports are a fraction of the total.

However you can probably grasp that by resigning from the single market, we are putting a large proportion of our exports at risk.

You can probably also grasp that since the rest of the EU exports a much smaller proportion to us, they are exposed to a smaller risk.

So we would be the losers in a trade war. I'm not sure you can truthfully describe the EU as "putting up trade barriers" when you are suggesting that UK tears up existing treaties and retreats outside the single market.

No doubt, in time, some new treaties will be drawn up, with the UK the smaller and weaker party in the negotiations.

What proportion of our 44% do you think we would lose?

 

[Doggit]

Exports are calculated as a percentage of GDP, and the EU has a GDP 11 times as big as ours, so if you work out the true relative percentages, you see that we export more to the EU, that they do to us. This piece of misinformation cropped up at the start of the debate, and was then double checked by the BBC fact check, but they also forgot to state that because the EU had a much bigger GDP than us, they weren't comparing like for like. And as we have a trade deficit with the EU, and that alone proves that they export more to us, than we do to them.

The video you found from the Infact.org group is complete nonsense I'm afraid.

If we vote to leave, the pound will drop, and our exports will take off in the same way that they did when we left the ERM in 92; we will in fact have a period of growth, not recession. Oddly enough, if Cameron hadn't told all those lies about the end of the EU if we left, the financial markets would have remained stable, and we may well have had a reduction in exports. The downside, is that imports from about the end of 2016 will cost more so inflation will rise, which the pensioners will love.

I would much prefer to remain, but we will just be dragged down by a declining EU if we do. If Cameron had had the balls to negotiate properly, and had then campaigned to leave when he didn't get what he wanted, I suspect the EU would have come back with a better offer in the same way that Cameron suddenly offered the Scots everything they wanted when it looked as though they were going to quit the UK.

And I'm afraid you're very likely right about the new treaties, because if Blair gave up some of our rebate, and our politicians automatically do everything the EU tells them to, where are we going to get a strong negotiating team to stand up to the EU.

 

[JohnD]

Exports are calculated as a percentage of GDP, and the EU has a GDP 11 times as big as ours, so if you work out the true relative percentages, you see that we export more to the EU, that they do to us.

No, not more. A larger proportion.

They export a small proportion to us, so it would make less impact on them if it halved.

So we have more to lose by tearing up the treaties and walking out. We don't "hold all the aces." We have more to lose. If you think that you will win by being a tough and uncooperative negotiator, when your opponent has a better hand than you, you are mistaken.

As you say, the pound will drop, so our imports (including parts for all those cars we hope to sell to Khazakstan) will cost us more.

I don't think pensioners will love to see the value of their savings and pension funds eroded by inflation.

Can you prove your assertion that EU exports to the UK are not 3% of their economy?

 

[Doggit]

No, not more. A larger proportion.

They export a small proportion to us, so it would make less impact on them if it halved.

Sorry John, what you're talking about is relativity and confusion. If you don't take into account that the total GDP of the EU is 11 times as great as ours, then 8% does appear smaller than our "44%", but even in simplistic terms, 11 x 8 is twice as big as our exports.

So we have more to lose by tearing up the treaties and walking out. We don't "hold all the aces." We have more to lose. If you think that you will win by being a tough and uncooperative negotiator, when your opponent has a better hand than you, you are mistaken.

They don't have a better hand - that's just how the remain camp have been juggling with the figures - and yes, so have the brexiteers, because we certainly don't send £350M each week to Brussels. At the end of the day, most Politicians are either too stupid to check or understand the facts they spout, or are happy to say anything to get their point across.

As you say, the pound will drop, so our imports (including parts for all those cars we hope to sell to Khazakstan) will cost us more.

Well spotted, but not that serious, because the imported parts are a small part of the total car, not the biggest part of it. It'll cut into the profit margin, but not much more.

I don't think pensioners will love to see the value of their savings and pension funds eroded by inflation.

Again you're right, but as the government always gives with one hand, and takes away with the other, it'll be no different to any other situation.

Can you prove your assertion that EU exports to the UK are not 3% of their economy?

This is an article from the Guardian ( a firm remain paper) and if you read down it, they say that the EU exports 54% to us, and confirms that we have a trade defecit with the EU, proving we have the stronger hand.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ew-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit