Let's NOT give £350m extra each week to the NHS! A better idea....

[Judy in the sky]

There are people that get seriously ill on nights out, overdosing (primarily) from mixing substances like E and booze. Some of these people could die if they don't get help, likewise alchol poisioning is a possibility.. you suggesting these people just die in the street for being irresponsible ? I don't think irresponsiblity should be punished with death, not when the persons paid for a service.

Hmmmm it's not just the alcohol and drugs though. There's also those unlucky enough to be injured by drunks, drug addicts etc. There's the cost of security in A&E departments, the cost of attacks on staff etc. (and believe me it's not just weekend nights ) At the hospital I work in, A&E have security staff on duty most nights of the week. For some reason Tuesdays and Wednesdays seem to be the quieter of the weeks nights, but increasingly Mondays and Thursdays can be just as hectic as any weekend night.
Yes I agree we don't want people dying on the street because they are drunk, drugged up to the eyeballs etc, What do you do when someone comes in absolutely drunk/ drugged up and has serious injuries which need an emergency operation? You can't just start administering pain relief/ anaesthetics, etc if you don't even know what mixture of drugs they've taken (and they're not always conscious/ capable enough to even tell you)
As for saying they've paid for NHS services, you can't seriously tell me the average 18 -25 yr old has paid enough into the system to even pay a fraction of the costs involved in their treatment? (and they don't get turned away)
Perhaps it's time for the NHS to start charging those who come to A&E suffering from an alcohol/ drug overdose? Send them a bill after treatment, in much the same way RTA patients are charged? (don't tell me you didn't know that patients involved in RTA's are charged for the cost of their treatment? )

 

[Doggit]

I'd definitely support a charge for treating drunks, as a lot of them seem to do it deliberately nowadays. The charge is made for RTA's as they can claim it back from the insurance companies far easier than they could from individuals.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

I have been thinking that NHS hospital/GP consultations should carry a £20 surcharge exactly like NHS dentists, to put off maligerers and timewasters. Otherwise can anyone explain why an NHS dental checkup costs £20 but asking your doctor about the sniffles, doesn't?

 

[JohnD]

to put off maligerers and timewasters

or to put off poor people who haven't got £20 to spare, or who might prefer to spend it on feeding or clothing their children

 

[Gerrydelasel]

or to put off poor people who haven't got £20 to spare, or who might prefer to spend it on feeding or clothing their children

They would receive LIS (HC2/3) help same as for the dentist.

 

[JP_]

Simple solution - increase tax to pay for public services.
Both the NHS and schools are suffering from cuts at the moment, they need more money. But, it's unfashionable to suggest that the state raises money from the people to provide the people with the services it expects. Much better to plough money into private partnerships the come with a nice dividend payment and boost private pension pots - great news for the wealthy elite that run the country.

 

[JohnD]

Funny thing is that Virgin Health, for example, is based in the Virgin Islands and doesn't pay any tax.

Perhaps they don't make any money.

If that was really true, though, they'd close down.

Poor old multibillionaire Branson.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Simple solution - increase tax to pay for public services.

But that is a never ending argument. Public services will always 'need more money', until there is none left to tax.
The simple solution is instead to accept the current standard of public service as the defult, and use private alternatives if you want better service.

 

[JP_]

But the current standard is in decline. I know doctors and nurses that work in Essex and Kent hospitals, and those hospitals officially failed this winter. The right wing press does not report it though, as that would be an admission of failure. There are entire wards empty, not because of a lack of doctors or nurses, not because other areas are overrun with foreigners, but a lack of resources to operate them. In one Kent hospital, all elective surgery was stopped for about a month. It's shocking it is happening, and equally shocking that it is not a top news item and top of the political agenda. Few people have the money to pay for private services, that's the whole point of a welfare state and having a free NHS at the point of service.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

But the current standard is in decline.

Perhaps because the bar was set too high, and we are seeing a natural readjustment back down to a sustainable level?

Few people have the money to pay for private services, that's the whole point of a welfare state and having a free NHS at the point of service.

Yes, which is why I didn't say 'abolish the NHS'. I just suggested it should provide a base-minimum-level of service rather than cutting-edge-world-class-level of service, which seems to be the assumption at the moment. Anyone who wants better private service can pay for it if they can/want to, same as choosing to shop at Waitrose instead of Aldi if you can/want to. Bupa med insurance costs as little as £100/month.

 

[Brigadier]

But the current standard is in decline. I know doctors and nurses that work in Essex and Kent hospitals, and those hospitals officially failed this winter. The right wing press does not report it though, as that would be an admission of failure. There are entire wards empty, not because of a lack of doctors or nurses, not because other areas are overrun with foreigners, but a lack of resources to operate them. In one Kent hospital, all elective surgery was stopped for about a month. It's shocking it is happening, and equally shocking that it is not a top news item and top of the political agenda. Few people have the money to pay for private services, that's the whole point of a welfare state and having a free NHS at the point of service.

We can all trade stories about the NHS, from both viewpoints: my sister is "front-line", and is worked damned hard.
She also tells of colleagues who do sod all (and get away with it), colleagues who have milked the sick for months, wasteful bureaucracy and bureaucrats, lack of resource on one hand, and profligate waste, inefficiency, and overspend on the other........
The NHS is one of the largest organisations in the world, so there will be excellent aspects, and laughable parts; it is a huge beast.

Unfortunately, the NHS appears doomed to carry on roughly as it does, because anything other than pouring more money at it will be seized upon for political gain.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

We can all trade stories about the NHS, from both viewpoints:

My mum, who is a dispensing assistant, is always complaing about how the elderly (in particular) are allowed to stockpile and then discard free prescription meds that they never use, because they simply tick all the boxes on their re-prescription forms, with no oversight. The waste is colossal. That's the trouble with giving anything away for 'free'; it ends up being overused.
Reminds me of the kibbutz collectives that tried to offer free electricity: people just left all their appliances and lights on all the time, until 'free' could no longer be sustained.

 

[blightymam]

. Anyone who wants better private service can pay for it if they can/want to, same as choosing to shop at Waitrose instead of Aldi if you can/want to. Bupa med insurance costs as little as £100/month.

Not true, sadly. To some, a fair few people, £100 a month is way beyond their means.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Not true, sadly. To some, a fair few people, £100 a month is way beyond their means.

That's exactly my point. Those who can't afford to pay extra will have to accept the bare minimum standard provided by the NHS.
The people who demand more and more money for the NHS usually argue from the perspective that the NHS should be the gold standard and not merely the safety-net standard, oblivious to the alternative perspective. Just like demanding more and more tax money for schools with the vision that they 'ought' to be as good as Harrow.

 

[JohnD]

Gerry will find that for a retired plumber, the annual cost of private healthcare exceeds the annual state pension.

And won't cover chronic or pre-existing conditions.

As for "Gold Standard" it would be a good start if the NHS reached a basic acceptable standard.

NHS costs are going up because the population has a bulge in the proportion of older citizens, who need more healthcare, more often, and more expensive. Even Gerry must have heard that the number of pensioners has shot up.