After the help before I have another question. My intention was to put LED downlights in the kitchen ceiling of my new place but I've noticed that the professionals on here don't seem to like them. Is this correct and if so what is recommended please.
more on re-wire
- Thread starter ojo1
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They don't like them because:
*They are a pain to plan and install
*They do not in general, offer effective/efficient lighting
*They can cause problems regarding the integrity of soundproofing, fireproofing and prevention of moisture ingress to the ceiling/floor void.
There are many variety of alternative lighting option, really down to the suitability to the environment they are installed and personal choice.
I don't mind installing downlights, providing the customer is aware, they take much longer to install, therefore my services are going to be more costly!
*They are a pain to plan and install
*They do not in general, offer effective/efficient lighting
*They can cause problems regarding the integrity of soundproofing, fireproofing and prevention of moisture ingress to the ceiling/floor void.
There are many variety of alternative lighting option, really down to the suitability to the environment they are installed and personal choice.
I don't mind installing downlights, providing the customer is aware, they take much longer to install, therefore my services are going to be more costly!
My advice would be to avoid low cost devices, especially those for sale from unknown sources on the internet.
These "economically priced" lamps are invariably built to a very poor standard and light intensity can vary between units leaving the buyer with a set of lamps where one or more are dimmer than the rest.
LEDs do create heat and this has to be disipated. The element in a good quality LED lamp will have a maximum operating temperature of 70°C Hotter than that and the element will degrade and its life time will be shortened. The element will be hotter than the outer casing.
Cheap LED elements will degrade at lower temperatures and cheap lamps often do not have adequate heat sinking to remove heat from the element.
These "economically priced" lamps are invariably built to a very poor standard and light intensity can vary between units leaving the buyer with a set of lamps where one or more are dimmer than the rest.
LEDs do create heat and this has to be disipated. The element in a good quality LED lamp will have a maximum operating temperature of 70°C Hotter than that and the element will degrade and its life time will be shortened. The element will be hotter than the outer casing.
Cheap LED elements will degrade at lower temperatures and cheap lamps often do not have adequate heat sinking to remove heat from the element.
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I think a spot light is great for lighting dark corners from a distance and as a reading lamp. They can be used for general lighting but they need to be aimed at light near white surface and often they are aimed at the floor.
The LED lamp have changed the lighting scene 5 years ago I was still using the same 2D florescent I started to use in 1980 and they do still work well.
In the main best light for a kitchen was the florescent tube but they don't look that good. So one has to take a compromise and use some lights which look more pleasing.
The 2D does come in a round fitting which works well but a 22w 2D will always be a 22W 2D it can't be easy converted to 38W. However where one fits a LED bulb to a similar fitting then you can vary the size of bulb should you find it does not suit.
So what ever bulb you use the main lamp needs to look something like this.
You can then add your spots or under cupboard or lights built into cooker hob as extras but you want a easy clean central lamp. Try to get one where you can remove the glass for cleaning.
I still use florescent tubes in my kitchen I think of the kitchen as a work room and I have to once a year remove the diffuser and take it outside and wash it.
The light wants to be cold you don't want any cooking grease to bake onto it. I find the grease does not show up in the rest of the kitchen but on the lights it does.
Height of ceiling does make a difference. With high ceiling likely only one main light is required. Low ceiling to many need 4 lamps to reduce the shadows.
The LED lamp have changed the lighting scene 5 years ago I was still using the same 2D florescent I started to use in 1980 and they do still work well.
In the main best light for a kitchen was the florescent tube but they don't look that good. So one has to take a compromise and use some lights which look more pleasing.
The 2D does come in a round fitting which works well but a 22w 2D will always be a 22W 2D it can't be easy converted to 38W. However where one fits a LED bulb to a similar fitting then you can vary the size of bulb should you find it does not suit.
So what ever bulb you use the main lamp needs to look something like this.
You can then add your spots or under cupboard or lights built into cooker hob as extras but you want a easy clean central lamp. Try to get one where you can remove the glass for cleaning.
I still use florescent tubes in my kitchen I think of the kitchen as a work room and I have to once a year remove the diffuser and take it outside and wash it.
The light wants to be cold you don't want any cooking grease to bake onto it. I find the grease does not show up in the rest of the kitchen but on the lights it does.
Height of ceiling does make a difference. With high ceiling likely only one main light is required. Low ceiling to many need 4 lamps to reduce the shadows.
I'm thinking about getting an LED panel to try out, see how well they work. I need a new kitchen ceiling, and the thought occurred to me that I could install some of those flush with the new plasterboard.
No compromise for me! I have a fluorescent in my kitchen and I wouldn't have it any other way. (Except maybe replace it for an LED tube at some stage.)
I have two 60 watt heavy duty filament lamps in my kitchen hanging on pendants with olde cottage type fabric shades. They are switched individually to give bright light when needed but can also be connected in series to produce a very pleasant warm glow for relaxing.
Same system on bedside lamps and the four lamps in the lounge.
Soft gentle warm lighting with no flickering and no dimmers to replace when a lamp dies in a flash of plasma discharge.
I do have the advantage of having a custom designed lighting controller and a total re-wire of the cottage. This also allows for ELV wiring to switches using miniature cable, essential when running cables in wattle and daub walls that cannot be chased out for twin and earth.
The lounge switches
The buttons are for selecting dimmed lighting
Same system on bedside lamps and the four lamps in the lounge.
Soft gentle warm lighting with no flickering and no dimmers to replace when a lamp dies in a flash of plasma discharge.
I do have the advantage of having a custom designed lighting controller and a total re-wire of the cottage. This also allows for ELV wiring to switches using miniature cable, essential when running cables in wattle and daub walls that cannot be chased out for twin and earth.
The lounge switches
Ban, do let us know if you do. I've seen them all over recently. Strangely the first place I saw them was in my local chippy which has had a very expensive looking refurb. But I've since seen them in Clintons and Morrisons (I think).
I have done a google search for enclosed surface mount LED panels but selection is sparse. They all seem to be for flush mounting. I'd like one or two small ones in the bathroom. Currently got a hideous "bought in an emergency" glass fitting which makes the room appear a light green colour due to the frosted glass.
Mr Green you do surprise me ! Whats that surface cable ?standards are slipping.I have two 60 watt heavy duty filament lamps in my kitchen hanging on pendants with olde cottage type fabric shades. They are switched individually to give bright light when needed but can also be connected in series to produce a very pleasant warm glow for relaxing.
Same system on bedside lamps and the four lamps in the lounge.
Soft gentle warm lighting with no flickering and no dimmers to replace when a lamp dies in a flash of plasma discharge.
I do have the advantage of having a custom designed lighting controller and a total re-wire of the cottage. This also allows for ELV wiring to switches using miniature cable, essential when running cables in wattle and daub walls that cannot be chased out for twin and earth.
The lounge switchesThe buttons are for selecting dimmed lighting
DS
Eventually the paper may be lifted and the cable laid in behind it. Or on the other hand it will remain pinned to the door frame as happened after the photo was taken.
I would love to live in a period property that i could use the original switches accessories unfortunately, my property is of the early 80's vintage and i have crabtree, including that lovely compact eye catching cooker switch, with neon ! mm
DS
DS
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