Motorised Valve. Strange, 2 problems in 1?

[footballfan]

slight problem i had - seems strange to me:

no heating came on this morning. power was on at programmer and heating selected. heating cal terminal live, motorised vave white wire live, but no power (oltage) to the orange wire ... so i thought it has to be the motor inside the actuator head.

i tried hot water only, and that came on - but the manual lever had no resistance so i thought the heating will warm up now as the valve is open.

anyway, i turned both off, and took off the actuator cover, and just touched the synchron motor a few times, nothing hard or aggressive. then the heating came on. On top of this, when HW only slelected, the lever has resistance again!!

do i have 2 problems in 1 - was the motor just stuck? all is fine now, but will this problem arise again and again? is a new actuator or motor required to be on the safe side (as it is winter now... almost)

the thing that puzzled me, was having 2 problems together, ie the motor not moving and putting power to the orange wire when heating was required, and when hot water only was selected, the manual lever was loose. are the 2 connected or different problems?

thanks for reading... look forward to your help and suggestions.

 

[footballfan]

any suggestions?

also, if this makes and difference, when i had the wiring centre cover opened, i noticed that a wire (i tarced it to the wire from the programmer hw off) was loose and not connected to the appropriate terminal box, which aso had the motorised valve grey wire and the cyl stat satisfied wire). i turned the power off and screwed it back in, then shorty after, as the above, all was fine.

would this loose wire have had anything to do with either of the 2 problems i had?

 

[seco services]

sounds like you may have had a sticking valve maybe the spindle or crud had got lodged in the paddle inside the valve.

 

[footballfan]

thought it may be stuck. could me touching or gently pushing the motor have temporarily freed it then?

what about the loose wire situation-would this have affected it. i am thinking why did the lever when hot water only on have no resistance? but has now .. was this fault linked to the motor being stuck fault at all?

 

[seco services]

as you say when hw only called for the valve willbe in the relaxed position resistance on the lever.
so it sounds like it got stuck open on heating port but not enough to touch the micro switchs.
with the grey disconnected when hw satisfied it wouldn't of shut the hw port.

 

[footballfan]

thank you for helping me get my head round this

so basically, the loose wire (which was not the grey wire but the prgo hw off wire) was why the lever had NO resistance when HW only be called for, and...

the motor possiby being jammed slightly with crud, etc was why when HTG only programmed on, the motor didn't move across fully and put power on to the orange wire (to start pump and boiler up).

or, do you think the loose wire was the reason why both problems existed?

 

[seco services]

when you touched the motor was it hot ?
with the hw off wire loose the grey should still get a live from the cyl stat when satisfied.
so i would say you had 2 problems in one.

 

[D_Hailsham]

with the hw off wire loose the grey should still get a live from the cyl stat when satisfied.

This is only true if the HW is ON at the timer. This is the reason for needing two "off" connections to the grey wire - one from the HW stat satisfied, the other from the timer HW OFF. The mid-position valve needs the grey to be live to make it go to the CH only position.

 

[seco services]

with the hw off wire loose the grey should still get a live from the cyl stat when satisfied.

This is only true if the HW is ON at the timer. This is the reason for needing two "off" connections to the grey wire - one from the HW stat satisfied, the other from the timer HW OFF. The mid-position valve needs the grey to be live to make it go to the CH only position.

yes i agree

 

[footballfan]

i can't remember if the motor was hot now, it was only warm if anything - i don't remember anything really hot.

so basically if the hw off wire from the programmer wasnt loose, then none of the problems would have happened?!!

 

[D_Hailsham]

if the hw off wire from the programmer wasn't loose, then none of the problems would have happened?!!

That would certainly account for the boiler not turning on when the CH went on, assuming that HW was OFF at the timer.

But, from what you wrote originally, the valve could also have been stuck in the CH position.

The loose lever is another matter. When the valve is not working, the HW port is open and there will be resistance when you try to move the lever. This is because you are trying to move the valve across to open the CH port against the spring which keeps it in the HW open position. The lever is not attached to the ball which moves so, when the valve is held in the CH open position by the motor, the lever is free to move and there will be no resistance. It's not a fault - just the way it works.

 

[footballfan]

why would hw off wire from the programmer have an affect on the heating not going on?! i am confused nw?!!

 

[D_Hailsham]

why would hw off wire from the programmer have an affect on the heating not going on?! i am confused nw?!!

How a Mid position Valve Works

 

[footballfan]

ok fair enough. from that conclusion i believe the 1 loose wire contributed to both problems!!!! and i was go out and buy a new actuator head - lucky i didn't now!!!
thanks for the link by the way - read it and one thing i would like to question: it says when heating is satisfied, from the heating only position, 50-150v will remian on the orange wire and the valve continue to be energised and warm to the touch. - is this not meant to be the GREY wire still energised and warm to the touch??? if orange was still live, then power would be on to pump and boiler still as they are linked in the same terminal!!

 

[seco services]

with only grey live hw satisfied or off at programmer orange will still have aprox 100v
and valve held in last position.
boiler/pump need to 230v to run.