moving shower?? Can I extend wire

[ColJack]

see, this is the problem with colaborative writing..

with 20 people all trying to put their oars in there will be misunderstandings....

it may be written down in black and white, and all parties agree to it, but what it means in one persons head is often not the same as it means in the head of the person stood next to him...

as has been whitnessed on here many times when arguments break out over the meaning of certain regs and the wording contained within...

 

[JonoPashley]

So that reg would just about ****** up most if not all socket outlets/light switches etc etc how absurd

 

[sparkysm]

if your trying to say i`m wrong, then find the regulation that you cant use through crimps/lugs as an unacessable joint. (50mm deep in a wall)

i also consider this bad practice, so i dont do it. but there is no reason why you cannot..

 

[JonoPashley]

you can use crimps as a inaccessible connection but it doesnt say anything about the depth into the wall..

 

[rebuke]

522.6.6 is the relevant reg here - if you don't have any accessories or whatever (i.e. its not in a safe zone), then assuming it's not e.g. SWA or in conduit, it must be >50mm depth. You could quite happily bury it just under the surface if it was in a safe zone (for example if you wanted to move a socket a foot up a wall say)...

 

[JonoPashley]

then its absolutely nothing to do with the joins thats regs for cable runs and relevant safe zones so if its in a safe zone and is on a rcd, the depth of the joint is irrelevant. Running cables outside them without protection is bad practice regardless of joints.

 

[rebuke]

Indeed, I'm not disagreeing with that, I suspect the confusion has come from someone talking about a specific example where someone wanted to bury a joint that wasn't going to be in a safe zone once done, where it would have to be at >50mm because of 522.6.6 (as would the rest of the cable obviously)...

 

[ColJack]

nevermind.. must type faster..


how odd that BAS started this argument then hasn't been back...

the person who said it was non-specific and bas took it the wrong way and tried to make him look silly ( as is often BAS's way )

 

[sparkysm]

right just read my notes.

if an unacessable joint is made it MUST be done via through crimps, if buried in a wall it is recommended that it is assumed it out of the safe zone. i.e. >50mm deep. although not statator

although for some reason i consider joint boxes safer than through crimps

 

[Spark123]

Don't think it "must" be a through crimp tho that is one way of achieving a permanent join.
If it is to be burried and not in a safe zone then it will need to be >50mm however if this is the case you also need to take into account that you may have made the cable either side of the joint outside of a safe zone also.
So do you make the join in an accessable enclosure to ensure the safe zone or do your most to rip the cable out and renew it complying with the safe zones?

 

[ColJack]

to the OP..

can you not fish the cable to where you need it with the aid of cable rods ( at a push, net curtain wires will work.. )?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

how odd that BAS started this argument then hasn't been back...

There didn't seem much more I could add, until now.

the person who said it was non-specific and bas took it the wrong way and tried to make him look silly ( as is often BAS's way )

I was not trying to make him look silly, and what he wrote was not non-specific, and I did not take it the wrong way:

it is perfectly legal and correct to join unaccessible joints but you must use through crimps/lugs. and if in a wall greater than 50mm deep

Unambiguously a specific claim that inaccessible joints in a wall must be >50mm deep.

And all I did was to make a light-hearted comment about asking for his money back.

if your trying to say i`m wrong, then find the regulation that you cant use through crimps/lugs as an unacessable joint. (50mm deep in a wall).

You're still erroneously conflating the two.

1) Inaccessible joints impose a requirement for particular techniques to be used, one of which is crimping. Joining a cable does not affect compliance with the regulations concerning concealing it.

2) Concealing cables in walls imposes requirements for specific routes or minimum depth. These rules apply whether there are joins in the cable or not, and if there was no depth requirement before a joint was made then there is none afterward.

right just read my notes.

if an unacessable joint is made it MUST be done via through crimps,

No, not "MUST" - 526.3 admits other methods.

if buried in a wall it is recommended that it is assumed it out of the safe zone. i.e. >50mm deep.

Why?

What possible reason can there be for taking a cable which you know to be in a safe zone and then assuming that it isn't any longer because you've joined it?

 

[ColJack]

2) Concealing cables in walls imposes requirements for specific routes or minimum depth. These rules apply whether there are joins in the cable or not, and if there was no depth requirement before a joint was made then there is none afterward.

unless you are removing the item that marked it as a safe zone, in which case one or more of the other methods listed in 522.6.6 must be used to protect the cable..

What possible reason can there be for taking a cable which you know to be in a safe zone and then assuming that it isn't any longer because you've joined it?

one of the reasons for joining cables is the (re-)moval of accessories such as light switches, sockets, showers etc..
as I said above, the removal of an accessory removes the associated safe zone that it created.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

True, but it's the removal of the safe zone that introduces a depth requirement, not the jointing.

 

[plugwash]

one of the reasons for joining cables is the (re-)moval of accessories such as light switches, sockets, showers etc..
as I said above, the removal of an accessory removes the associated safe zone that it created.

Which basically means you can't do a concealed joint (presumablly a visible blanking plate with connections behind could be considered an accessoriy for safe zone perposes) at all in such cases because no matter how deep you bury the joint the existing cabling won't be in a safe zone anymore.