Multifuel stove questions

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I'm looking to add a stove to a self build but never had one before so have a couple of questions.
the room is 6 x 4m so looking at a 5Kw for room heating only and will be vented via twin wall flue up through the first floor and via the loft roof. Outside air intake will also be added.

It's not a smoke control area but most I've seen are Defra approved, Is this a good or bad idea? The only difference i can see is that defra lets in a bit more air when closed down so less smoke to surrounding houses but may use a bit more fuel?

Would I need the stove early in the build to make sure everything's built in the correct place for intake/flue exit?

One I like the look of is called ACR Neo 1C, has anyone used or installed one of these?
 
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Nice looking stove.
All I can say is the BiL fitted one very similar in his new build. He sat his on a black polished granite hearth.
Think he spent nearly £4k.
His air intake came under the floor.
 
DEFRA Approved means that in some instances you can have a smaller flue diameter (usually 5" instead of 6"). It also shows that the stove has been tested by a recognised UK organisation, which is nice.

Provided you've got all the necessary dimensions, you shouldn't need the actual stove on site.

Personally I'd avoid anything by ACR, having just lost a fight with them over a warranty claim for a cracked stove body. They wouldn't pay out because the stove wasn't purchased from one of their approved suppliers, so it only came with a 1 year warranty instead of a 10 year warranty. They offered to sell me a new stove direct from their own factory, but said this would also only carry a 1 year warranty. Not a happy customer, I won't fit another one of their stoves.
 
Nice looking stove.
All I can say is the BiL fitted one very similar in his new build. He sat his on a black polished granite hearth.
Think he spent nearly £4k.
His air intake came under the floor.

I think i'd be opting to bringing it in through the wall rather than the floor, just not sure if it was best to build it into the wall while the house goes up or drill a hole once completed so i's exactly where it needs to be. 4k is quite a lot.

DEFRA Approved means that in some instances you can have a smaller flue diameter (usually 5" instead of 6"). It also shows that the stove has been tested by a recognised UK organisation, which is nice.

Provided you've got all the necessary dimensions, you shouldn't need the actual stove on site.

Personally I'd avoid anything by ACR, having just lost a fight with them over a warranty claim for a cracked stove body. They wouldn't pay out because the stove wasn't purchased from one of their approved suppliers, so it only came with a 1 year warranty instead of a 10 year warranty. They offered to sell me a new stove direct from their own factory, but said this would also only carry a 1 year warranty. Not a happy customer, I won't fit another one of their stoves.

That sounds very poor, surely anyone who sells one of their stoves means it has to of came from them? I've just checked a few sites and they do all say 10 year stove body warranty so how can they say otherwise?

I'm not really fixed on an ACR stove as I've struggled to find any reviews, but it's that design that i am looking for to fit into a corner.

So no major drawbacks to a DEFRA approved really. I know a house close to me with a Defra stove and depending on the wind direction you can still smell it a bit so not good if windows open, so i was thinking non defra might be worse, it's going to be a more spacious area so might not be as bad.
 
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£4k is about what you should be budgeting, including the stove.

I thought the same on ACR's warranty when I bought the stove, but they were adamant that it needed to come from one of their approved suppliers in order to qualify. From their own website... "This 10 year warranty covers all stove castings, it does not include consumable items such as glass, grates, bricks and door seals. This full warranty is only honoured when the stove is purchased from one of our recommended retailers. If a stove from any of our brands is purchased from a non recommended dealer only a 12 month warranty will be honoured. Full details on this policy can be found in our warranty section and full warranty details can be provided by our recommended dealers."
 
That's terrible warranty cover, most websites selling the stoves won't mention that it's 1 year due to them being a non authorised dealer.
What's the cost breakdown to get you to 4k+?

I was looking at stoves around £1500/1600 and then quoted twin wall flue at £60 per m, so I'd be needing 9m for my vertical flue with a maximum of two 45 degree angles if the roof trusses get in the way. Then any lead flashing or heat shields where it passes through ceiling/floors.
 
Warrenties of more than a year or two are a waste of time imo as most faults covered occur in this period, anything else is classed as a wear item or pilot error.
 
I had a friend who had a real bee in his bonnet about wood burning stoves. He wanted me to write a web page, and I wanted to validate the info first, some of what he had said was true, to burn without particular emissions the stove needs an after burn and the flue gases have to reach a set temperature, at least until wood is transformed into charcoal or coal into coke. To get to this temperature the unit has a very small window of output, so 4.5 kW to 5 kW in your case, and in real terms we normally want to run the unit likely 1 kW to 5 kW so only way is to have a back boiler which can remove the excess heat and store it for latter use.

The other was what type of wood, some people said mixture, some said hard, others softwood, so again looked into it, and all wood including coal which is only compressed wood has around the same calorific output per unit weight, however what controls the burn is volume on the fire bars not the weight, seen this problem with steam trains where trying to convert from log burner to coal burning, there needs to be a way to alter size of the fire box.

Clearly burning enough coal to pull 100 tons of steam train 8 miles if fire box not set correct it would cost a lot of money in wasted energy. With wood and coal burning stoves we look for a flue temperature of around 150°C, over and wasting heat, under and the flue can soot up and go on fire.

However if like me you light the fire once a year, does it really matter? If the fire is there for ambiance, when you have visitors to impress, then being set up spot on does not really matter, if however it is going to be regularly used, then needs to be set spot on. However this is for wood and coal, charcoal and coke is a very different story, the process ovens have already removed the nasties, but to burn charcoal or coke the fire still needs doors, and the whole idea is ambiance, and doors closed there is not so much ambiance. However there is not so much a problem with getting the chimney swept or varying the output.

I was brought up in a steel-working town, to make iron in a blast Furness it needs large lumps of coke, and the small stuff was sold off cheap to the workers, so we had all coke burning fires, and bunkers at rear of house to store it all, there was a minimum delivery, however once we had to pay full price, very quickly the coke burners came out and gas fires went in instead.

That friend of mine was right with one thing, unless you have a cheap supply of fuel, solid fuel is not cheap to use, the main problem is it causes draft, and you seem to have realised this and are fitting a burner which draws combustion air from outside, this was why most of the old fires were so bad, it is why we had high backed chairs to stop the draft.

However the price for a wood burner from B&Q is quite low, under £300, but it will not really comply with any regulations, but a condensing stove
Hughes Condensing Stove 2 small.jpg
with a plastic horizontal flue pipe, looking at a few £1000 pounds. OK that is not a normal stove but this one
wallnoefer.PNG
is more a normal stove for every day use, note the water cooled jacket, which in turn needs a method to store and use the stored energy
Torrent pipe example.PNG
now your looking at £10,000 to install, personally can't see how it would ever pay for its self, my brother-in-law had it in his last house, and yes it worked, a fire in evening was enough to keep house warm all day, plus heat from solar panels, but I just get oil delivered twice a year, the cost to install a proper multi fuel fire is just far too much.

Main point is what will the building inspector allow?
 
That's terrible warranty cover, most websites selling the stoves won't mention that it's 1 year due to them being a non authorised dealer.
What's the cost breakdown to get you to 4k+?

I was looking at stoves around £1500/1600 and then quoted twin wall flue at £60 per m, so I'd be needing 9m for my vertical flue with a maximum of two 45 degree angles if the roof trusses get in the way. Then any lead flashing or heat shields where it passes through ceiling/floors.

Does the 9m take you the requisite distance above your roof? Fittings are expensive (£50 each) and you'll also need support brackets for the flue (£20 each), an adapter to get it on to the stove (£30), a firestop for where it passes between floors (£100 each), a terminal (£60), a roof support (£40), flashing (£70), and guy wire kit (£60). What about a hearth? £300 for a slate hearth. On top of all that, there are sundries not listed, and of course you need to pay someone to fit it for you. I've done a quick add up of the flue materials I think you'll need with my supplier, and in round numbers it's £1300

So,
£1500 stove
£1300 materials
£200 sundries
£300 hearth

That's £3300 before you've paid someone to fit it. So yes, you'll get a bit of change from £4000, but not much. Round here you'd be looking at a good £500 to fit that and sign it off, so that gets you to £3800
 
Even if a stove your looking at has a 125mm flue outlet I would say it's better to fit a 150mm flue as it gives the choice option of a wider range of stove if your not in a sc area .
I always used Selkirk flues as they one of the few that could be installed 50mm from combustibles.
 
Clearly burning enough coal to pull 100 tons of steam train 8 miles if fire box not set correct it would cost a lot of money in wasted energy. With wood and coal burning stoves we look for a flue temperature of around 150°C, over and wasting heat, under and the flue can soot up and go on fire.

Main point is what will the building inspector allow?

I never knew there was an optimum temperature for the stove pipe. They must all differ pending the stoves KW output does it?

I this stage i don't know what the building inspector will allow but I was told that adding a stove can sometimes help with the SAP calculations. I't wouldn't be used as a source of heating water, just for occasional use once or twice a week.

Muggles, I see now that it soon adds up. the ridge height was down as 8.75m so roughly 9m seemed about right after it's added to the stove which will sit around 1m high.
 
I looked into doing this a few months ago but there doesnt seem to be an easy or cheap way to do it if at all without a fireplace. With it being a free standing corner stove to exit the flue right out of the wall it meant using the twin wall on the exterior which i hate the look of over 9m so everyone directed me to going up through the inside.
I dont know any other options.
 
I this stage i don't know what the building inspector will allow but I was told that adding a stove can sometimes help with the SAP calculations. It wouldn't be used as a source of heating water, just for occasional use once or twice a week.

Worth checking with your BI, as they may require you to ensure that the entire air supply can be ducted - some stoves only allow partial ventilation via a duct, with the rest being a secondary free air vent into the room. there's a good (but not exhaustive) list of which stoves are full duct and which are partial duct air supplies at Stoves Online.
 
Handy link that thanks. I will require full air from outside as im looking to fit mvhr which will need air tightness.
 

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