Exactly
Need a PIR check done - worried about discruption
- Thread starter NewOrder
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I was reading through the thread, and it was only when I saw @ban-all-sheds that I realised it was old.
As to the use of English words, that is not so easy, we have animal, vegetable or mineral, we may also consider fungus as another, but fruits are vegetables, but vegetables are not necessary fruits. It is like motor vehicle and car.
What worries me is laws and regulations change, so advice given in 2007 may have not been valid in 2009, maybe old threads can be locked? Or removed? I am sure advice on growing Rhubarb is still valid today as it was 100 years ago, but that is not really the case with electrics.
As to the use of English words, that is not so easy, we have animal, vegetable or mineral, we may also consider fungus as another, but fruits are vegetables, but vegetables are not necessary fruits. It is like motor vehicle and car.
What worries me is laws and regulations change, so advice given in 2007 may have not been valid in 2009, maybe old threads can be locked? Or removed? I am sure advice on growing Rhubarb is still valid today as it was 100 years ago, but that is not really the case with electrics.
The English language is complicated/messy in the first place, and ('evolved') 'common usage' (often theoretically 'incorrect' in relation to prior 'official views') is even worse.
What matters is 'clear and unambiguous communication' and (maybe surprisingly!) in most cases (usually including most of those you mention) that is generally achieved.
Kind Regards, John
...BUT some usage is simply wrong and always will be.
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Wrong by some criteria, yes. A very high proportion of 20th/21st century English (as used/spoken) would undoubtedly be regarded as 'incorrect' by someone from earlier centuries - and sometimes similar on much shorter timescales (e.g. 'arbitrarily', since you and I were born).
Kind Regards, John
No - not by some criteria - simply always wrong.
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Yes decimate will always mean kill one in ten, how could it mean anything else.
There will always be people who use language which is incorrect even in terms of what is regarded as 'correct' today - so they will, indeed, be "simply always wrong".
However, that's not the general situation we're talking about. As I always point out, your view/approach requires an arbitrary decision as to which point in time one regards as establishing what is 'correct'.
As far as I can make out, you seem to regard something as 'incorrect' today if it does not comply with what was regarded as 'correct' when you were a child. However, at that time, if your parents took the same approach, they would have regarded some of the language then in use (which you regard as 'correct') as being 'incorrect' in terms of what was regarded as correct when they were children - which, in turn, would have differed from what Shakespeare or Chaucer would have regarded as 'correct'.
In other words, none of this talk of 'correct' is anything like as 'absolute' as you seem to suggest.
Kind Regards, John
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Seems appropriate to ask this...
Which of these are nuts?
Peanuts
Almonds
Cashews
Walnuts
Pine nuts
Brazil Nuts
Macadamia Nuts
Pistachios
Pecans
Coconuts
Which of these are nuts?
Peanuts
Almonds
Cashews
Walnuts
Pine nuts
Brazil Nuts
Macadamia Nuts
Pistachios
Pecans
Coconuts
Like it or not (and EFLI certainly doesn't!), words mean "what they have come to mean".
We still iron clothes with things that may well contain no iron, few plumbers work with lead, very few, if any, people still use words like "idiot" and "moron" to refer to levels of IQ etc. etc.
Having said that, I agree that "decimate" is an odd one - since it's difficult to see how it has evolved to have almost the opposite of its original meaning!
Kind Regards, John
You forgot to include the nuts which one screws onto bolts, and a good few other non-biological things
Kind Regards, John
Obviously I have to accept that what has already happened cannot be undone but that does not mean we have to today suffer similar fools to those who brought about those things in the past.
Correct people when they make a mistake and keep saying it is a mistake.
Don't give in and alter the dictionary.
I note in this stupid age that one dictionary has "modified" the definition of woman to include some who are not women.
There is no hope.
but they once did so it was/is not a mistake.
Why not?
It is presumably because hardly anyone realised that 'decim' meant a tenth and killing a tenth of the population was fairly devastating.
Not sure what the opposite of a tenth is.
Will a spider ever be an insect just because idiots do not know they are not?
Yes, I realise that you would like to prevent any further evolution of language, but I'm far from convinced that is a good idea and, of course, it's never going to happen, even if you would like it to.
However, I can't help repeatedly coming back to the question of what (arbitrary) point in time one chooses to regard as having established what is 'correct' (for evermore). Had you been born at the time of the birth of your parents or grandparents, or Shakespeare, Chaucer or Beowolf, or even 'cavemen', would you really have campaigned for language to never change from what was 'correct' at that point in time?
I'm not so sure of that. Once upon a time the ('correct') meaning of "plumber" was (and was only) a person who worked with lead - so how can it be correct (in your eyes) to now use the word to refer to a person who doesn't work with lead?
Because they don't
Although the words are widely used 'colloquially' by the general public, very few of them will even know that they actually have (had?) a meaning in terms of the numerical value of IQ - and psychologists etc. (who originally defined the words) stopped using them decades ago because of the way they were being used by the general public. Similar with "cretin", which very few peopleknow has anything to do with thyroid function and which those few who did know that stopped using the word decades ago for the same reason ans with the 'IQ words'.Dunno. As I said, it's rather odd - since people now seem to regard it as relating to something considerably worse than "killing a tenth"
That's why I wrote "almost the opposite". As above, I suspect most people think of it relating to consdierably more than "one tenth" - maybe "all but one tenth" (i.e. 90%)?
That's an example of what I wrote in my 'original' message - some people being "simply wrong" (in terms of current accepted meanings) if they describe a spider as an insect - just as they would be if they called a screwdriver a saw!
As for idiots (IQ <25) not knowing this, the same might well be true of imbeciles (IQ 25-50) or even morons (IQ = 51-70), not to mention a good few people with 'average' or above-'average' IQs !
Kind Regards, John
Its lucky this forum isn't in France,
Can you imagine the arguments that would ensue because someone got used la instead of le on a particular word?
Ancient thread. Start a new one if you want
Indeed. However, France/French is very different, in as much as there is an official body 'in charge of the language' - with English, we are at the mercy of 'common usage' and the authors of dictionaries!
Kind Regards, John
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