Wlyex 8 way standard - what issues are likely to come up?

[NewOrder]

Suggested again that the 1980 wiring needs checking. During some building work I was doing to jack up a sunken floor I discovered the 2.5mm T&E cables which form the ring main are not even clipped to the joists but floating with the only mechanical anchorage being the gap between the floorboards and the wall where the cable goes to the socket!. Not a major issue to fix BUT if that cable was left like that (all the others are properly secured) what else was bodged?

I am mostly concerned about the earth which wired to 13th Edition standards will not be up to scratch.

My thoughts are to leave the ring main as it is, just repairing anything that needs it, then add a new circuit to one of the bedrooms which could do with more sockets (my workshop).

I have done some DIY in the house as you will know, nothing major mostly just a the odd spur and new light fittings etc, my worry is I don't want to find an spark who is totally against DIY but will politely inform me if anything I have done is not up to spec (I installed an outdoor security light using an RCD plug rather than use an RCD FCU safe but probably not compliant).

I think what I am asking is assuming the cables are ok, and in most rooms we are happy with the amount of sockets, would most sparks be happy to leave everything as it is and replace the consumer unit with something more modern?

My parents keep putting of getting the electrics checked as they fear they will say it all needs rewiring but as far as I know it is all fine, it is just the earthing and CU that needs upgraded and possibly the odd repair here and there.

The budget is going to be around £1k max. I realise this is a how long is a piece of string question but it is a 3 bed house with 9 sockets! and 9 light fittings.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Simple solution is get an electrical installation condition report done on it, they will flag up most issues, then you can discuss with the electrician the best way forward. Very rarely do I go in to property where everything is perfect, that does not mean I am going to rip the joint apart.

 

[sparkwright]

I seem to remember you discussing this property two years ago, and the simple answer is get a report done.

I would like to think most wiring installed by a pro in 1980 would be reasonably good.

Most rewires don't seem to have the cables clipped to the joists under the floor, as the electrician doesn't want to lift much of the floorboards. Also it makes alterations easier.

Any bonding to gas, water etc, would probably be in 6 mm2 in 1980. It may be very easy to draw in 10 mm2 ones if the cables are unclipped under the floor! Assuming you already have some bonding.

Most electricians will change a fuseboard if they are reasonably happy with the state of the wiring, but they will almost certainly insist the bonding is satisfactory. They should also do a few tests before fitting a new board, though they may do this during or after - but this can lead to finding unexpected faults at the most inopportune time (like 4 pm on a Friday).

Hopefully all of your additions are done to a good standard, as this may put someone off changing the board.

Can you send a few photos of the installation, just to give us more of an idea?

 

[NewOrder]

Have discussed this before, ok some of my DIY work which was done with the intention my parents will be in the house for ever:-

Installed a burglar alarm and put some of the 6 core alarm flex through a disused door, not compliant but as the door doesn't even work properly at the time it was the better option rather than drilling through the walls (if I had my way I would have drilled through the wall). The feed to that is from the CU from the lighting circuit put I added a 3 amp FCU which wasn't there before to better protect the alarm cable.

Installed an out door security light but as there was a spare socket near by I used that, via an RCD plug rather than do add a FCU, we are doing up the kitchen with extra sockets being added (hopefully by a spark) and sussed this can be sorted then.

The other work I have done is in my workshop is replace most the original sockets due to faults (cracks etc) and pendant flexes etc.

My workshop is a mess of 12 way gangways but the entire load on them is always less than 500w (used to power laptops etc) but I do want extra sockets adding to tidy it all up.

All the lighting circuit is earthed etc though have never checked for continuity but this is something I assume the spark will do anyway before swapping the CU.

There is earth boding on the pipes and there is an earth rod near the CU itself.



Rather old picture but still valid.





I hope these help.

Edit there is also a mess of ethernet cables all over the house, but I assume this will have no effect on any inspection.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

So is the earth arrangement via TT earth rod?
If so is there any RCD or earth leakage device protecting the whole of the consumers side?

 

[ericmark]

The first thing I look at is the fuses nothing wrong with fuses but to add RCD protection is a problem. I have two Wylex boxes like you show coming from two RCD's which would comply but to comply in your case would require mutli RCD's and to install them on the output would in essence mean a CU feeding a CU and so only sensible way is new consumer unit.

If you accept this is only real way forward the question is reliability of supply v cost and you have to decide which of the many options to adopt.

Two RCD's will comply but you have a chance that they will trip with minor or no fault using RCBO's will reduce the chance of tripping but increase cost. If it is TT then may also need a 300ma RCD feeding all but there is a balance between cost and chance of RCD's tripping with no real fault.

It is always a hard thing to decide between all the options. I have two old RCD's and they do trip from time to time and I have considered changing to X-Pole which would trip less often or consumer unit change and RCBO's both options will likely reduce tripping and even as an electrician I can't decide which would be the best.

You pay your money and take your chances my mother with 1952 wiring even more a problem OK a split consumer unit fitted but most sockets still not RCD protected and until a re-wire can't be done.

So only way is select an electrician you can trust and then go with what he says. There is no magic formula it's down to personal preference and there are 101 ways to make it comply.

 

[NewOrder]

Currently no RCD protection any where apart from the security light. I am in no doubt at all the CU needs replacing, regardless of if they comply I cannot imagine they last for ever.

Not even expecting to have everything done to 17th edition standards, there is no way of doing that short of a full rewire just want to know the earth is adequate. I am thinking when I do the kitchen is the best time to get the spark in as I want a separate circuit created for that.

 

[sparkwright]

If you get a new consumer unit, just make sure it's a very big one, as it seems you are doing a lot of work to the place, and already you are thinking about extra circuits.

Upgrading the bonding and adding RCDs to most or all of the circuits may come very close to getting the place up to 17th edition, assuming there's nothing major wrong. It does sound like there may be a few minor improvements to do.

 

[NewOrder]

The stuff I know is wrong is silly things like light switch cables under door frames etc, but I assume adding RCD will make that semi compliant. What about things like my burglar alarm e.g my cable placement, will the spark only be concerned with the supply to the control panel?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I would have thought, a TT system (if that what it is?) without existing RCD protection would be a major concern!
I will return to my original suggestion, get an electrician to do an EICR and very quickly!
I would also consider contacting your DNO http://www2.nationalgrid.com/uk/Our-company/electricity/Distribution-Network-Operator-Companies/
and asking them if they are willing to disclose what type of earth the property has.

 

[NewOrder]

I phoned the DNO but they didn't have the information, they said only a spark would know.

Is there anyway of telling from those photographs? Is there any basic tests I can do to find out?

If it is a TT system does that mean that the earthing is not up to scratch?

 

[NewOrder]

Just read a bit more on it, I can see how it is a concern if it is a TT system. My parents have suggested replacing all the sockets with RCD ones but that is going to be expensive and as far as I am concerned the money is better spent getting it all checked out and doesn't fully solve the problem.

Not too worried about the lighting circuit as everything on it is plastic.

 

[AndyPRK]

have a look down at the floor/ground.

is there a green/yellow wire (or green only) going to a rod? or going outside ?

 

[NewOrder]

Certainly is an earth wire going under the ground which I always assumed was connected to a rod, but I don't know for certain. Cannot easily access under the floor at the moment.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Does anything here look familiar?

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:earthing_supply_types_and_bonding:earthing_arrangements