Need advice on joists in the attic

[dx90]

I want to use the loft for storage and possibly in the future as a loft room. The house was built in the late 1920’s. There are no boards at the moment and the joists in there are 4”x2” with 12 to 15 inch spacing between the joists and the main centre bearing wall is 12 feet from the wall plate. The joists are warped and have sagged in the middle by about 2 to 3 inches. There are no noggins or anything running at 90 degrees to strengthen them at all.

Can I fix another 4”x2” on top of the existing to make it 8”x2” or can I run some 4”x2” at 90 degrees to strengthen them, then put the chipboard onto that?

What are my options if I want to use it as a storage room only?

What are my options if I want to use it as a loft room down the line?

Thanks

 

[markie]

you can run some 4x2 at 90 degrees, then use loft boards, or 2x8 chip boards, but only for light storage tho don't be putting a boat load of stuff up there. but if your intending to convert your loft ie to make an bedroom then why don't you do it buy the regs, then at a later date convert the rest.

 

[dx90]

I already have the 2x8 feet boards for the loft, they are P5 boards if these are ok.

Where can I find out the regs?

What is the best way to fix the 3x2" with at 90 degrees?

Thanks

 

[markie]

Not sure what p5 boards are but they do

reguarding the regs go to your council and ask for planing department or say you want to speack to someone reguarding what you are proposing to do and they tell you who you need to speak too. ps you'll need to pay an biulding inspector to check the work you had done tho and you'll need to get the work passed by them before you start.

fix the 3x2 with screws on ever ceiling joist

 

[dx90]

Do I screw down through the top or through the sides on an angle?

Also the main bearing wall is 4 metres from the wall plate in that direction and the 4x2" timbers are only 3 meters long what is the best way to join them to keep there strengh because they won't be long enough?

Thanks

 

[JohnD]

If the existing timbers are already sagging badly, it is not a good idea to put more weight (including the extra 3x2 and boarding) on them. The cross-battening is a handy way of spreading the weight if the timbers are basically sound.

Sooner or later you will probably need to take the ceilings down and build new flat ones (there is a way of doing that without removing the old timbers)

If you can get new timbers in, long enough to span from one wallplate to the other, you can build a floor on them. Otherwise steelwork between the walls would be another way, and build on that.

 

[dx90]

I will look for some 4 meter 4x2" over the weekend. To span across at 90 degrees to the sagging timbers. I just had an idea; I have two purling running all the way around my roof inside equally space up the slop of the roof.
Wonder if I can steel strap the sagging joists to the bottom of the purling to take out the sagging and strengthen the joists before running the new 4x2" over the top at 90 degrees to the old and then put my new boards on top.
What do you think about this?

Thanks.

 

[markie]

If the existing timbers are already sagging badly, it is not a good idea to put more weight (including the extra 3x2 and boarding) on them. The cross-battening is a handy way of spreading the weight if the timbers are basically sound.

Sooner or later you will probably need to take the ceilings down and build new flat ones (there is a way of doing that without removing the old timbers)

If you can get new timbers in, long enough to span from one wallplate to the other, you can build a floor on them. Otherwise steelwork between the walls would be another way, and build on that.

The ceiling joists may be sagging due to warping thats all, but like you said putting rsj's in for the new floor would be better ( by regs ) and if they want an full conversion then the floor is already in place.

Reguarding the ex-ceiling it would be best to put an false ceiling in, than knocking down the exsisting one ( less mess)

 

[JohnD]

I will look for some 4 meter 4x2" over the weekend. To span across at 90 degrees to the sagging timbers. I just had an idea; I have two purling running all the way around my roof inside equally space up the slop of the roof.
Wonder if I can steel strap the sagging joists to the bottom of the purling to take out the sagging and strengthen the joists before running the new 4x2" over the top at 90 degrees to the old and then put my new boards on top.
What do you think about this?

Thanks.

Old timber that's sagged is very reluctant to go straight.

If you were able to get your saggy bits level, or, better, slightly domed, then screw the new timbers and floor to them, it would be a lot more rigid, and would probably stay flattish when you released the supports (you'd probably need a forest of Acrows).

However you ceilings would probably crack and fall down

 

[dx90]

I will give it a go with the acro props and see if I can take some of that sage out and use it as a store room.

I did have an large Velux window installed when we had the stacks taken down that lead me to the idea of possibly turning it into a loft room but I have priced all the timber etc up for the loft as a bed room conversion, that with the building inspector fees is out of our price range with all the other work going on here at the moment so I will go with turning it into a storage room for the foreseeable future because we need the storage space know.

If I run into any difficulties when putting in the new 4x2" joists in I can always ask on here. Thanks for all your help, it’s a great forum.

Thanks

 

[dx90]

Hi all
The longest 4x2" I can find local are 3.6m but they are not long enough to do the span in one.

Can I butt them end to end and put another 4x2" along the side over where they butt up together and then drill through and use 4 bolts to fix them together?

Will this be as strong as a complete length?

What sort of bolts and washers will be ok for this job?

Thanks

 

[scousespark]

you can run some 4x2 at 90 degrees, then use loft boards, or 2x8 chip boards, but only for light storage tho don't be putting a boat load of stuff up there. but if your intending to convert your loft ie to make an bedroom then why don't you do it buy the regs, then at a later date convert the rest.

I'm in a similar position. I want to board my loft for storage and have 4x2 joists. What size joists should I fit, to take some weight and would suit conversion into a bed room at a later date?

 

[Deluks]

I'm in a similar position. I want to board my loft for storage and have 4x2 joists. What size joists should I fit, to take some weight and would suit conversion into a bed room at a later date?

What's the span between supporting walls etc etc etc?

 

[dx90]

The span between the bearing wall is 4.5m to the wall plate. The full width of the loft is 6.5m wide.

 

[Deluks]

The span between the bearing wall is 4.5m to the wall plate. The full width of the loft is 6.5m wide.

9x3's off the top of my head.