Need help --been "cowboy'd"

[andy28]

Need some help here. Just got in to find wife in floods of tears. This morning she noticed that the pump was leaking. She called a plumber who came out. She said he tried to tighten it up but made the leak worse, so told her he would drain down the system.

After a hour he said he was leaving for 'parts'. Packed up his van and never returned. No answer from mobile. Wife got his number from local paper. I've also tried but its switched off all the time.

I've just had a look and i'm shocked and need some advice to put it right. THe pump is still really leaking but our hot water cylinder has buckled inwards. So now i'm going to have to replace that as well. I remember swapping one over a few years ago.

Why has he buckled our hot water cylinder

Problem is how do i drain down. We're now in a house with an old system. I've had a look for the heating header tank and i cant find one anywhere. THere is a tank in the loft space above the cylinder. It has what looks like a supply in and a feed out at the bottom, and a 15mm pipe bent over the top - ? vent pipe. I think these pipes all come from the cylinder.

Any help to put this mess right please.....


Andy

 

[namsag]

Sounds like he has tried to bung kit a primatic cylinder and it has imploded...If cylinder is not leaking it should be ok..

 

[gas4you]

You should have a 15mm gate valve in the cold fill from the small expansion tank to the heating system. Turn this off.

If you haven't, go into your loft and tie up the F&E tank ball valve to stop it filling as the pump is leaking.

Is the pump next to the HW cylinder? He may have been rough whilst trying to remove the pump and dented it

Quite often old pumps are really hard to remove and need the valve nuts cut through with a hacksaw to remove them then new ones fitted.

The only other wa your hW cyl could buckle would be if he had tried to drain this and the open vent was blocked

The vent for your ch should be 22mm

You should have a drain off under a radiator downstairs. Connect a garden hose to this and open to drain the system.

 

[andy28]

Gas4you.....I dont have a small expansion tank for the heating side on this system. Its confused me cos i did in our last property.

Its an old floor standing boiler in the kitchen (needs upgrading i know). Off the boiler are 2x22mm pipes running along the wall and into the old pantry. In here is the pump (which is leaking alot now) and then both pipes have a 't'. Horizontally these 2 pipes reduce to 15mm and go to the radiators. 2 x 22mm pipes rise vertically to i think the hot water cylinder or upstairs rads. There are no motorised valves on this old system. Last house we had a 3 port valve after the pump.

Then there is our now 'imploded -thanks for the term Namsag, hot water cylinder. This has a feed at the bottom left which i think comes from a tank above - this has a gate valve on it. On the top is a pipe which must supply our hot water. This has a 't' and from this 't' again runs to the tank above. I think this becomes a vent pipe over this tank. On the right situated at the bottom and midway up are 2 x 22mm pipes coming from the floor below.

I need to know firstly how to drain this whole system - to fix the leaking pump, and secondly to remove the cylinder to replace it. When i turn on the gate valve to fill it - it doesnt half groan, so i've turned the gate valve off.

PS: the cylinder isnt dented it has as Namsag stated imploded..

Andy

 

[Gasguru]

Isolate the cold fill to the cold water cistern and drain down through the taps/rads.

Remember to refill slowly with NO inhibitor.

If its too badly damaged then consider replacing the Primatic with a conventional indirect cylinder and installing a new F&E tank.

 

[gas4you]

Didn't realise you had a Primatic cylinder

Follow advice given by others

 

[ollski]

I would be inclined to try your house insurance and let them chase him up to recoup their money. A new primatic cylinder and pump and valves fitted isn't going to leave you with any change out of 500 quid.

 

[JohnD]

and another benefit is that, with luck, the insurance co might have a panel of approved plumbers.

 

[andy28]

So, what i need to do is isolate the cold feed to the cold water cistern which i can see above the Primatic hot cylinder. Theres no valve on the cold inlet so i suppose i would turn off the cold at the main stopcock.

Then open the hot taps and also open a drain off which i have found below a radiator pipe in the cellar.

Then change the leaking pump isolation valve (and if money permits the cylinder -lol). Close back up the drain off and then turn back on the cold water which should fill both the rads and the cylinder.

Andy

 

[doyle]

softus you been out wit stetson on again yeeehaaaa

 

[andy28]

So, what i need to do is isolate the cold feed to the cold water cistern which i can see above the Primatic hot cylinder. Theres no valve on the cold inlet so i suppose i would turn off the cold at the main stopcock.

Then open the hot taps and also open a drain off which i have found below a radiator pipe in the cellar.

Then change the leaking pump isolation valve (and if money permits the cylinder -lol). Close back up the drain off and then turn back on the cold water which should fill both the rads and the cylinder.

Andy

Guys

is this what i need to do. Its cold tonight and need to try and begin to sort it.

 

[ollski]

Where is it leaking from exactly?, and if pump valves what sort are they?, pics would help greatly.

 

[JohnD]

you don't need to turn off at the stopcock, you can tie up the float of the ball cock. then your cold taps will still work so you can boil a kettle and make mugs of tea.

Yes, you need to get the pump off. Assume you will need to fit new pump valves and pump. Try undoing the old ones. If you can it will be less trouble than cutting and remaking.

Get all your tools and parts, and some spare piping, and preferably a pipe cutter - it is better than a hacksaw for making a new joint on.

As far as I can see you don't HAVE to change the cylinder tonight unless it's leaking, although it must be pretty old and Primatics are a mystery to me (I am just a householder), you could do it another day when you have time to add a loft tank or two and run some more pipes, you could do that preparation prior to decommissioning your old cylinder.

 

[andy28]

Where is it leaking from exactly?, and if pump valves what sort are they?, pics would help greatly.

Theres a valve either side of the pump. One of them is leaking and wont stop. The valve is like a gate valve but without the wheel on it. Wife says its leaking more since the plumber tried to fix the system.

Primatic cylinder has got a huge dent in it. I have begun to fill it halfway but it began to creak and groan. However, i cant see any leaks at the pipe joints on it (cold feed, flow and return etc).

I'm gonna empty the system first thing in the morning.

So, just to clarify. On the cold cistern above the hot cylinder, i just tie off the float valve (instead of turning off the stopcock). Then run the hot taps which will empty the hot cylinder (without it imploding again). THen open the drain off on the heating side which will allow me to fix the leak on the pump.

Then SLOWLY fill the system up again. Correct.....

 

[JohnD]

I don't know Primatics, but the hot tap will empty the cold tank, but not the cylinder. this is because the supply to the taps is taken from the top of the cylinder. To drain the cylinder you have to take water from a pipe that is fed from the bottom of the cylinder.

Maybe a rad drain will do that on a Primatic, I don't know. If you're lucky you may find a drain-cock to do it.

If Gasguru says draining the rads will empty the cylinder, I'm sure he knows better than me.