Neighbours drain under my foundation

[trevorbayliss]

Does anyone know the legals with regards to the drain in my photo.

I am currently on a shared combined system with my semi neighbour. I am planning on providing my own outlet and new drainage system as part of my new extension.

The current set up has my drains flowing under my old conservatory area (now dug out) and then under the neighbours wall, on through his conservatory and then down his drive.

There is also a weird drainage setup where one of the neighbours drains goes through his wall and forms a semi circle under my conservatory area and then tees into the drain run which goes under the wall. I think this was done in the past because of the conservatory the neighbour had built. So it is like an added loop to the drainage system. It is only an occasionally used over flow drain for his conservatory roof.

This drain will be right under my new foundations and i have suggested to do away with this underground pipe and instead allow the water to flow into my small section of guttering and down a drain pipe. This would then run horizontally along my new extension wall and fall into the first gully drain on my new line of drainage.

We are effectively removing any underground issues for the future.

My neighbour was all for it, but today has seen the pipe i have exposed and wants me to concrete over as you normally would do (lintels etc). I think he is having some issues with his elderly dad and so wasn't in the best of moods.

So as i understand it the drains have to stay, even though it seems crazy to have them under the extension.

Couple of questions:

1) you can see from the other photo taken earlier that my house was also using this drain to take water away for my washing machine. The previous owner put this in and had simply cut the pipe and placed and taped his new outlet onto this join. The neighbour says i must fix this pipe as it is broken.

What is my position here ? If the pipe is my neighbours am i also responsible for it because it is on my land ?

What happens in the future if the pipe gets blocked after the new extension is in place. Who fixes the pipe ? I will not be using it at all because my washing machine will be using my own new drainage ?

2) My neighbour has also said i cannot use his wall to run any drainage pipe on it. What is my position with regards to this wall ? Apparently he has built it off centre on his land so he owns it all. Does this mean i cannot use the wall to fit a trellis in the future for plants ?

3) The capping on the wall is tile and brick. One tile of the capping on my side has broken over the years (looks like it was broken to install the conservatory). He said i needed to repair it today as well.

4) Who would i see for some legal advise about this issue if i cannot work it out amicably.

My neighbour is a bit strange and i have tried my hardest to get on with him over the years. He had a huge fallout with his other neighbours about them building a wall. He is very sensitive about his property and everything has to be done right.

It was his idea about fitting the drain pipe to take the excess water instead of using the drain, so i am a little bit lost at the moment.

 

[motorbiking]

A bit of a mess with the previous owner cutting in. so..
he's acquired a right to drain over your land assuming its been like that a long time. end of.
he's responsible for cost of maintenance, but what you show isn't maintenance its as a result of your naughty previous owner and your building works. It might even be owned by the water company now.
Can you find an alternative for your washing machine? You don't really want a shared sewer.
You probably now need to get permission from the water company and this will get expensive.
I assume you served a party wall notice and got agreement before excavating under his foundations?

 

[trevorbayliss]

1) I do not need this drain as all. That is the point. He doesn't really need it if he accepts the alternative which is a drain above ground. Same set up, just not in the ground. Makes sense all round. I am using this drain at the moment and temporarily have cobbled some 40mm pipe to flow into it. I will be making my own drainage connection down my drive, so will be capping off my drains which run under his wall.

2) A party wall agreement is not needed because i am not digging below his foundations. That block of foundation is from my conservatory and not his wall.

3) Because we are on a shared sewer, the water company is responsible for all drainage on his side as he has the outlet into the road. I have no idea if they are also responsible for this small loop of drainage.

 

[motorbiking]

ahh right so the brick wall on the left isn't his? Its not easy to get a view from the picture, but if you are happy that you are compliant with the 3 and 6M rule then ok.

Can you create the alternative drain without impacting his connection? I still think you may need approval from the water company.

 

[Ian H]

It would be very simple to replace the cut section of pipe.

It's hard to visualise the rest without seeing a sketch of where the drain runs and where you are building. If it runs directly in your foundation trench it would be better off moved.

 

[trevorbayliss]

The brick wall IS his and i am compliant with the 3m and 6m rules of working on foundations so the PWA is not needed here.

The pipe does run DIRECTLY under my proposed trench line for foundations.

My solution is to run this pipe as a rainwater down pipe and so on the surface and not under the ground. My neighbour initially thought and suggested this idea. Now he is playing silly sods with me and i am not sure why. He is purposefully making my life difficult.

I have contacted the water company and will wait this morning to see what they say. Hopefully they will come and inspect.

 

[Ian H]

By the look of it you could turn it 45degrees where it's been cut into and relay it outside of your foundations.

 

[trevorbayliss]

Yes that is the best option of a bad bunch. It means that big foundation block needs to be broken up though. The footing for the wall are down around drain level, so i think the wall will be ok, but it just seems such a waste to take all this material out and potentially disturb the wall.

I do need to cut the foundation back about 100mm as it is just sticking out a bit too much into the foundation trench i need to dig.

Spoke to the water company today and will see what they say when they get my video and pics. Someone has said it might be their responsibility, but they don't know at this stage.

 

[motorbiking]

Someone has said it might be their responsibility, but they don't know at this stage.

their responsibility - paid for by you. In case you had any thought to the contrary.

 

[trevorbayliss]

The water company say it is 100% private, but they then say i need a solicitor to say who actually owns it (me or neighbour). This is a cop out in my book. They must know who owns pipes in these situations. My neighbour good potentially ransom me.

 

[motorbiking]

Private sewers are owned by the properties they serve. He has acquired a right to have it there, its his and you have no right to do anything to it without his permission. If the connection from your property is established then it could belong to both, but still it needs his permission.

You either do what you like and hope for the best or you get his agreement.

 

[Ian H]

It's not original, that's why they say it's not theirs.

I'd relay it and ignore the neighbour. As long as what you alter works then it's neither here nor there.

 

[trevorbayliss]

I can relay it, but the sticking point is my unreasonable neighbour. I don't like what motorbiking is saying. I thought i can alter it providing it still does what it is supposed to, which is take away the rain water from his conservatory roof. So this means moving it to the side. Much easier than having to bridge it for the foundations. BC come tomorrow, but i don't think this can actually be bridged as it runs a good distance under the line of the foundation.

 

[motorbiking]

It doesn't belong to you. That's the sticking point. That said, he'd have difficulty establishing damages, if you provided something that did exactly the same.

It may help your discussions if you found it was leaking further down and causing damage to your land

 

[Ian H]

Tell him that you will need to relay the section to repair the cut piece.

Must be hard having such an idiot as a neighbour. Your above ground, into the gutter idea makes perfect sense.