New Boiler advice and misc questions

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We currently have a 3 bedroom detached house with double glazing, loft insulation but NO cavity wall insulation. Our gas boiler is a 16 year old Myson rated at 55,000 BTU.

We are planning an extension which will add an additional 2 bedrooms, larger kitchen and a garage conversion to a clinic for my wife (Holistic Therapist)

Firstly I need to look at a new boiler, I guess a condensing combi-boiler makes most sense as a larger capacity one should cost a similar amount to run as out existing one.
The Worcester Greenstar 2 Plus range looks good, any comments or other recommendations ?

I plan on fitting TRV to most of our radiators and we plan on having 3 showers and 1 bath in the house. We would only plan on ever having a max of 2 showers running at once.
My wife's clinic needs to have seperate temperature control as some therapies such as massage require the clients to wear minimum clothing. I presume the easiest way would to be have a separate zone with it's own thermostat ?
What sort of heating method would be most suitable, bearing in mind we will be converting the garage and therefore will not be laying a new concrete floor ?

What sort of boiler capacity would we need with the new extension ?

With a pressurised boiler we hope to be able to achieve good showers without having to purchase additional pumps or power showers. Will this be achievable ? and if so what sort of flow rate should we be looking for from a boiler to run 2 showers simultaneously ?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
 
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Forget about using a combi for 2 showers. Unless one is electrically heated.
 
Paul_Thomas said:
Even though some of them are rated at 16L/Min throughput ?

Manufacturer's stats against practical experience, that is what ChrisR is offering. Stick with a DHW cylinder if you can, and avoid a combi. With the better insulation standard for the new build/ conversion you will be pleased to hear that a 60,000 btu/hr boiler (18kW) may be all you need.

If you've got a cavity wall, put some insulation in it; the cost really is small compared to the benefits of lower bills and higher comfort levels. I think I am also correct in assuming the Building Regs require floor insulation for the garage conversion and, anyway, I suspect the garage floor will need to be brought up to the level of the rest of the house so this is an easy installation (?).

Have you thought about underfloor heating (UFH) for the ground floor? Definitely worth it if you're planning orgies with scantily clad young ladies running around.
(Sorry, must have misread your original post ref. use of room) :oops:
Seriously, warm floors are an affordable luxury and fit in well with your "warmer than the rest of the house and on a separate time schedule" requirement.

As for the boiler, I suggest you look at the Ideal manufactured EVO HE H19 available at the Plumb CentRE. They are identical inside to the Ideal Icos and now have a 3 year parts and labour warranty. They're also made in the UK, so we all benefit. (Other opinions may be available!)
 
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meldrew's_mate said:
Definitely worth it if you're planning orgies with scantily clad young ladies running around.

Though you need to find a way of stopping them running. ;)
 
I had considered UFH, I presume the water fed systems are far more economical than the electric ones ?
However I wasn't expecting to have to do any work on the floor in the garage, it already has a damp proof membrane and is only 16 years old.
I was thinking of tiling the floor, so a thin UFH system would be required.
(It would be useful if the garage could easily be converted back to a garage for future owners)

Can a radiator be installed in the room as well to give a quick top up ?
 
If space is important to you and you dont want a cylinder or any store head of water in the house, a Worcester highflow (of similer) will happily suppy two showers at once with hot water.

I know this as mine has been in for 5 years and supplys 2 bathrooms. It has never once skipped a beat either.
 
Am i right in thinking that if you have the space for a cylinder, then dont get a combi?

I was nearly decided on a combi, i thought they were the way forward. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to install, no tanks, no hot water wasted when you dont use whats in the cylinder. Might have to think again
 
Some of the plumbers on here have a strange view of combi's and advise strongly against them and seem to mock people who get rid of there DHW cylinder in favour of a combi......not wanting to sound too picky but I wonder at times if it has anything to do with themselves not being able to repair them if they go wrong.


A well installed and commisioned Combi will give years of trouble free heating and hot water and slash gas bills compared to a conventional system.


Its time plumbers stopped living in the stone age. THEY ARE THE WAY FORWARD.
 
HarrogateGas said:
Some of the plumbers on here have a strange view of combi's and advise strongly against them and seem to mock people who get rid of there DHW cylinder in favour of a combi......

This is not a strange view, and I am not a plumber. The view is born out by the problems I see in households where a combi has been fitted and is not capable of giving the performance claimed by the installer and expected by the customer. It is also because of the problems generated by the breakdown of the boiler, usually at an opportune time, resulting in lack of heating AND lack of hot water.

.......not wanting to sound too picky but I wonder at times if it has anything to do with themselves not being able to repair them if they go wrong.

This indicates you probably emanate from a leaking tap under pressure. I (for one, and it applies to quite a few others on this forum) am able to repair ANY boiler I work on. I also fix boilers for several manufacturers when other repairers have failed after several attempts.

A well installed and commisioned Combi will give years of trouble free heating and hot water and slash gas bills compared to a conventional system.

This is not supported by independant figures. If you know different please supply details of the reports.

Its time plumbers stopped living in the stone age. THEY ARE THE WAY FORWARD.

A puerile remark, but don't worry in a few years time we will all be heading that way and it won't be FORWARD. Check here
 
I am one of the "others".

"""I (for one, and it applies to quite a few others on this forum) am able to repair ANY boiler. I also fix boilers for several manufacturers when other repairers have failed after several attempts. """

I do think that he is right in some cases though. Many builders and plumbers only fit simple systems which they can half understand.

I also agree that most properly installed combis give years of reliable service and they are simple for me to repair quickly.

Unfortunately, combis are easier to instal and many questionable builders and plumbers fit them because they are so easy without regard for what system the client really needs.

I would NEVER fit a combi unless the client had lived with one before and both he and I were confident it would meet his requirements.

Tony
 
Hey guys whats the big devide. I serve my time 4 a firm that trained all in plumbing & heating on 50/50 spread. its a lot to take inbut it give u a good all round picture & a hell of info stress. . combis r great in the installation they suit but its all down to the supply & demand of DHW. Got an existing customer who loves his combi but with 3 showers now fitted it also heats his 250 ltr megaflow for shower that he dreemed of & a bath all 5 can get in. & his heating aint off 4 an hour at night while all this is goin on. Dead legs in barns need secondary circ so asta la vista combi.
 
You can also provide a secondary circulation even with a combi if it uses a flow switch DHW demand.

There was a discussion recently on another forum.

Tony
 
Are you saying that even at a flow rate of 16L/Min on a combi-boiler I still won't be able to run 2 decent showers simultaneously ?

Any way of having a hot water storage tank with a Combi ?
 
Most showers like 8-10 litres per minute, some even 14 !

You can use a combi to supply one bathroom and a cylinder to supply the others and kitchen, this enables you to use a standard 24 kW combi.

Tony
 

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