New Boiler Advice Needed Please - Ferroli?

[babybecks]

Hi All,

I have a 4/5 bed house with 2 bathrooms and my boiler has gone. It is a Potterton and after this being added to a list of problems I've had with it and my gas bills being through the roof I am plunging for a whole new boiler rather than getting the one I have fixed.

I've had a few quotes,
BG £3630.79 with Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30Si
SE £2731.99 for same boiler
Local independent £1600 with Ferroli something.. I THINK it's a modena. Or £1900 for a Worcester something...

My other half is leaning towards the Ferroli and says you hear good and bad about everything (I can only find bad!)

Can anyone give me some advice on which boiler I should get? It needs to work! I'd rather pay a bit more and not have to get up wondering if it's broken everyday. I have a cold house with a 15 month old baby and can't keep filling the bath via the kettle!

Thanks in advance

 

[Dan Robinson]

Ferroli?



There is a reason why the price for supplying and fitting one of this pieces of Shiite is the same as the list price of the Worcester b. However.


I would SERIOUSLY be questioning any one specifying a combi boiler for your property.

A little read of recent "what boiler" type threads will show you why. Annoyingly common question here.

 

[babybecks]

I would expect that it's an annoying question to you because it's often asked by everyone but this is the first house I've owned and the first time I ever had to buy a boiler. I read ALOT on here about F**elli boilers on here but surely if 3 people have been round to quote and have all suggested combi's a combi would be correct? If I can't trust the people who come through my front door to quote then I'm sure this is why you get the same questions a lot.

My current boiler pcb went this week and I've spent hours researching if it would be more cost effective to fix or get a new one but I finally turned to this forum as a last resort after being unable to make a decision myself based on my net research.

I really would appreciate help

Thanks ... a girl! but with no attitude

 

[Dan Robinson]

I am still in the bath - albeit the bubbles have gone


I know it is frustrating, but it is a big problem in the industry with people going n courses for 6 weeks and learning little more than sales guff.

Combi boilers are fine if you understand and accept their limitations.

On a 4/5 bed house with 2 bathrooms I wouldn't have one. And I have such a house, and I do this for a living.

What EXACTLY do you have at the moment? The chappy in a recent thread in Bedford seems to have to same dilemma - don't hijack his thread though.

And keep hubby at a distance. In my experience well meaning men with no idea (especially those that like to pretend to be alpha males) are more of a hindrance than a help.

 

[babybecks]

This bit I DO know! Potterton Performa 24. This broke in winter and we had the diverter valve changed and then put back to the original one because it didn't fix the problem. Now I have no hot water and no heating. The boiler was relighting for about a week when I reset it but now it doesn't do that so it's just off.

We have always had pressure issues in the house. The boiler was at one point in the loft but the previous owners had it moved to the landing in the airing cupboard which is situated between the bathroom and the double shower room (power shower).
There are 2 thermostat double radiators downstairs and 1 double without a thermostat. There are 4 radiators upstairs with thermostats and then 2 bathroom radiators (not electric heater type) without thermostat.
If you put the bath on then you don't get a shower! simple as! Not a problem at the moment but something I'd expect to become a problem once little one needs to be out of the door in mornings for nursery rather than as and when.

My bills for gas and electric at the moment are £153 per month! I've recently swapped dishwasher and washing machine to cold water only to try and reduce these bills a bit.

I had costings done for fixing current boiler of £200 - £350.

 

[babybecks]

oh, we have a manual wall thermostat in the living room.. there is an electric type one in the dining room which is disconnected and hasn't done anything since we brought the house except look like an eyesore!

 

[babybecks]

oh and the block of metal I have in the airing cupboard doing nothing and not even looking pretty is an 8 year old Potterton

 

[Dan Robinson]

I hope the "little one" is a little dude or dudette rather than hubby?


You are the prime example of someone with a poorly specified house, and have called local fitters in who have seen what you have and are being lazy.

The various permutation for replacing what you have are legion; and without seeing the house it is hard to say as some tests are required. However... no Combi (unless you hit the commercial market) will cope with two decent showers at the same time.

You will need a heat store of some sort - whether than be an unvented cylinder or thermal store.

Unless you find someone local with knowledge ignore a thermal store (I am advocate of those by the way). An Unvented may be boring but they work.. You will need a decent mains water supply to them though.

If yours main supply is not around the 2 bar/25 litres perm minute mark (measured with other water flowing - dynamic) then you need to augment it some how. Accumulators are one option - however, if you are used to Combination boiler performance, the upgrade may not be worth while.

This is something only you can decide - so a little research on your part is essential. Have look around the forum - ignore what make and model for now - get to grips with the ins and out of the various options that have been posted.

Your watch words are:

Unvented Cylinder
Dynamic Pressure
Flow rate
Gas rate/capacity
Accumulator
Pumps


None of this is rocket science, but there are a lot of charlatans that use those words to bamboozle the home-owner.

 

[Matt 87]

This man is 100% spot in what he says. Unfortunately you are in a predicament of the blind leading the blind. Although the outlay for installing a standalone boiler and unvented cylinder is more than a combination boiler the benefits massively out weigh that long term. Think when your little one is getting ready for school in future and someone else for work, only one shower at a time!! Then you would be cursing yourself for not getting an unvented setup. Without looking at your property its hard to tell but budget more like 4-5k, depending on whether you need an accumulated or upgraded water main.
Stick with a boiler from vaillant/atag, hot water tank with external expansion vessel, honeywell controls and you won't go wrong if you can find a decent installer to put it all in. Tell them what YOU want, your paying for it and living with it, if they advise a combi boiler its because they are lazy and or just stupid!

 

[babybecks]

wish one of you 2 lived closer cos I'm still getting told to get a combi!

 

[Agile]

A combi is quick and easy to install. Those people know just the minimum needed to fit a simple boiler.

If you go for a combi you will spend the next 10 years regretting it.

You need an experienced engineer and not a simple combi installer who does not understand the physics of what they fit.

Tony

 

[gbgasman]

I think you would benefit from a larger combi , my preference would be a worcester greenstar 37CDi,, quite pricey but the bees knees, as for a ferolli , my 20 years in the trade tells me to steer clear if you can, I guess its all down to cost but i know what i would be doing, , It would be worthwile to get your main water inlet pressure checked before commiting yourself to anything . This test would tell u if your property is suitable for your chosen appliance be it an unvented tank or a larger combi .

Cheers GB

 

[Agile]

I would be measuring the dynamic flow rate!

The pressure alone means little!

 

[gbgasman]

I agree the flow rate should be also checked , you will find the mains pressure is in fact very relevant to which appliance/system can be installed . it says so in the manuf instructions..

Cheers GB

 

[sandybeach]

How many hot water outlets do you have?
Are your showers electric or fed from the boiler?
seeing as you currently have a combi boiler, you will know the restrictions they have.
If you have a high demand for hot water, and plan to expand your family in the future then a combi is a bad idea.