New Boiler, New System, or Neither?

[JohnD]

You've got an old system, so I expect you've got an open system. not a sealed one.

The F&E tank is the easiest place to tip chemicals in, if you've got one. It should be a bit bigger than a lavatory cistern, with a 22mm vent pipe bent over the top of it, and a 15mm pipe out of the bottom running down to join your system near the pump or boiler.

You only have to squirt chemicals into a radiator if you haven't got an F&E. This is no more difficult than poking butter up your arse with a hot needle.

 

[chuckalicious]

If this is sticking open you will get the impression that the system works as you describe, if your draining down the system it may be a good time to change this valve for a new one which will allow the fitting of a digital timer/controller which gives more control.

I'm not sure if I'm "getting the impression" or if that really is the case. On the timer, there are 2 switches. One for hot water and one for heating. Each one has it's own light to suggest that particular circuit is on. If I put the hot water one to off, and the central heating one to on, the light doesn't come on and nothing heats up. As soon as I turn the hot water one on, both lights light up and everything is happy. I don't really want the hot water on twice a day, as we only really use it in the evening, so I feel I'm wasting money heating something I'm not using much.

I should say that when the heating comes on I can hear the little motorised valve open and close as it should, so I think it's working as it should, I just think it works in a daft way....

 

[Daz66]

I would imagine that it is wired incorrectly and would require re-wiring.

The boiler is a simple 'on-off' circuit with the other parts i.e. thermostat, pump, 3way valve and timer clock being wired to control the 'on-off' part of the system.

Check to see if you have a 3way motorised valve.

Should look like this http://www.avenuesupplies.co.uk/showimage.php?id=1595 somewhere near to the pump.

If you do then you isolate the heating from the hot water and then all you need to do to modernise the system is purchase a controller and re-wire everything...... should only take a few hours.......a schematic of the wiring will come with the controller.

 

[JohnD]

Or, if you have got (or can get) a Cylinder thermostat then, even when Hot Water is "on", once the cylinder is hot, the thermostat will prevent it being heated further.

A well insulated cylinder stays hot for a long time.

 

[chuckalicious]

Yup, that diagram rings a bell. I certainly recognise the little metal tab that moves when the valve opens or closes.

I guess I'd still need someone in to rewire and change the pipes/valve would I not? I'm handy and have plumbed in a bathroom before, and I can connect wire x to wire y if instructed, however, I know next to nothing about how valves etc work....

 

[chuckalicious]

Or, if you have got (or can get) a Cylinder thermostat then, even when Hot Water is "on", once the cylinder is hot, the thermostat will prevent it being heated further.

A well insulated cylinder stays hot for a long time.

And this is what confuses me....

I have 2 water cylinders in the kitchen. Both are coated in that pale foam moulded insulation type stuff (great description ). The sellers told us that they only used that for a "boost", and next to it is an electric circuit breaker which they said they only turned on for a boost (ie if the boiler wasn't on). This has never been on since we moved in. I asked my father in law about it and he felt that the boiler was heating the water, passing it to the hot water tank, and then if the water was requested by a tap, it would be pumped back from the tank in the kitchen to the tap. I don't presonally understand this. I take it from his explanation that the boiler is heating water for the central heating AND the hot water, passing some to the radiators and some to the hot water tank. I had always thought that hot water was heater by a heating element in the tank, but it would seem ours only does that if we turn on the breaker next to the tank.....

Anyone fancy a trip to Stirling?

 

[JohnD]

More usual:

the cylinder has a coiled pipe inside it. The hot water from the boiler is pumped round this coil, and the coilk heats the water in the cylinder. The boiler water and the tap water do not mix (except in a very rare design, or if faulty )
The electric three-port valve directs the heated boiler water into either the radiators; or the cylinder coil, or (sometimes) both.

We probably have a diagram on here somewhere. Have a look at the first few items on //www.diynot.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=7

There is usually an electric immersion heater in the cylinder as well, that you can use when the boiler is off (for example in summer). In this case you would expect to see the black plastic cover poking at a slant on the top of the cylinder, with a cable running to it. In some cases there is an additional immersion heater near the bottom of the cylinder.

Water heating by electric immersion heater is more expensive than heating by gas (unless it is summer and you only want small amounts at infrequent intervals).

No pump is usually required, the hot water is pushed out through the tap by pressure of water in the cold tank above.

It is unusual to have two cylinders in one house.

Anyway, we're getting off the subject! Insulate your loft first and forget about the boiler for now!

How about a picture?

We like pictures

 

[Daz66]

Was just about to offer to 'pop in' and have a look but multi mapped your locality and have decided against it.

Try adding a few pics.

The boiler will heat water which is pumped around the heating system but diverted through a coil in the hot water tank, hence the valve. The HWT is gravity fed cold water from a header tank which 'pushes' the hot out when a tap is opened.

I have installed bathrooms and done some electrical works and found wiring up a new controller easy enough its just a matter of understanding what does what and how it all connects together.

 

[Daz66]

Sorry to repeat Johns post, we must be typing at the same time.....

 

[JohnD]

Hee hee!

 

[chuckalicious]

Thanks folks.

I'm off tomorrow waiting on sofas being delivered so I'll take some pics and post them. That should keep you all happy

 

[chuckalicious]

And here they are:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/75023660@N00/329009978/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75023660@N00/329009976/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75023660@N00/329009974/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75023660@N00/329009973/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75023660@N00/329009973/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75023660@N00/329009972/
[/url]

 

[Nige F]

2 cylinders..........Scotland ...............seem to remember a thread way back on a similar subject lost all my favorites on this computer so can`t retrieve any links It`s in the plumbing forum somewhere

 

[JohnD]

I was also under the impression that the boiler would be sucking air in and blowing it outside, so it would be removing the damp air from the clothes and passing it outside, via the flue. Also, the door to the room does have good ventilation.

You were right, I see your boiler appears to have a chimney rather than a balanced flue, so will be sucking air in from the room. Hence you need a good gap under the boiler-room door, and free ventilation into the kitchen or wherever the boiler draws from.

That's a fine big boiler you've got, I bet any new one will not last as long.

 

[chuckalicious]

The door to the room has a large vent at the bottom of the door, plus another one at the top of the door, so I'm assuming it's okay.

If you look at the picture of the boiler valve, it looks like it's only a 2/1 way instead of the 3 way posted earlier. The pipe that comes out just before it must get fed whenever the valve is on. Would that make sense?

Also, looking at the radiator valve, it has a red arrow with the word OFF on it, however, if I turn it in that direction, it looks like the knob I'm turning goes up, instead of down (I would expect it to go down if I was closing a valve yes?).

I'm going to insulate those pipes in the room today and see if it still drys clothes If it doesn't, my wife will come on here and kill you all