New boiler, radiator expanding under pressure?
- Thread starter rjb852
- Start date
I have seen this a few times, usually on a Potterton Puma where the expansion relief is blocked. One bloke had three go in his house before he turned the boiler off.
ecotec 624 does not have an internal filling loop because the parts are discarded for the UK model along with the internal divertor valve fitted to ecotec system boilers in Germany.
Therefore the filling loop is a conventional external type.
I suspect these City Plumber types may have blocked the expansion relief pipe because it is unusual for a rad to pop at 3.0 bar, usually takes a bit more.
ecotec 624 does not have an internal filling loop because the parts are discarded for the UK model along with the internal divertor valve fitted to ecotec system boilers in Germany.
Therefore the filling loop is a conventional external type.
I suspect these City Plumber types may have blocked the expansion relief pipe because it is unusual for a rad to pop at 3.0 bar, usually takes a bit more.
Is the expansion relief pipe the one that goes outside and leaks when the pressure is too high? As there was water coming out from that
Yes it is.
Was the pressure around 3 Bar when the filling valve was left open?
The radiators should have easily stood that pressure. Yous's that did not was faulty.
I once saw a system pressurise to 6.5 Bar during a fault. None of the rads failed but the expansion vessel distorted, leaked and relieved the pressure.
Tony
Was the pressure around 3 Bar when the filling valve was left open?
The radiators should have easily stood that pressure. Yous's that did not was faulty.
I once saw a system pressurise to 6.5 Bar during a fault. None of the rads failed but the expansion vessel distorted, leaked and relieved the pressure.
Tony
Just to again point out. This is not an installer issue.
In fact i had a lucky escape in a similar situation, working for a real tech head. Coverted from a conventional system to Combi and after 20mins of running, heard a real racket banging like a gun was going off, turns out it was a rad blowing its spot welds - in gadget boys computer room!!
Dread to think of the claim if it had blow its seams. In my quote is now a disclaimer regarding existing system components.
In fact i had a lucky escape in a similar situation, working for a real tech head. Coverted from a conventional system to Combi and after 20mins of running, heard a real racket banging like a gun was going off, turns out it was a rad blowing its spot welds - in gadget boys computer room!!
Dread to think of the claim if it had blow its seams. In my quote is now a disclaimer regarding existing system components.
saw this once when fitted a combi on old system, lounge rad went but it sprayed water across the room out of the broken welds. Luckily cust was told might get some probs converting to pressurised system and the carpet was already fit for the skip.
Ah, another Corgi sage come to give us all the benefit of his wisdom about fluid systems, wisdom which his Corgi gas qualification doesn't actually qualify him to dispense.
Just to again point out that the Installer leaving the mains fill connection
1) connected and
2) open
is an Installer issue.
The pressure relief valve opens at 3 bar and the manufacturer's recommendation is that it is not used for draining ('cos it often won't reseat). It is quite likely that it will not now reseat. If a new PRV is required, that is an Installer issue.
The pressure exceeded 3 bar; the radiator welds failed at night, when the mains water pressure is greatest. The failure of the radiator welds under pressure is an Installer issue.
The system will also have received a thorough flush through; unfortunately all the debris will have been flushed into and towards the boiler. The pressure relief valve may be partially obstructed; I would have expected it to have limited the pressure rise in the system and the failure didn't happen until some days after the mains fill was left open (suggesting the pressure relief system had been degraded by partial blockage). I would suggest the boiler should be flushed clean, with the PRV removed and this is an Installer issue.
A refill of inhibitor is required, and that is an Installer issue.
Replacing this radiator is a red herring because it's old, it has resumed it's original shape, it's not used much and it was going to be replaced anyway. I'd bung in a new rad by way of an apology.
PS
The Installation & Maintenance manual is here;
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/stepone2/data/downloads/d7/42/00/ecoTEC_installation_and_servicing.pdf
The maximum rated pressure for this boiler is 3 bar ( the pressure at which the PRV opens) and the boiler has been subjected to a greater pressure than this. We do not know how high the pressure got. I'd contact Vaillant and ask them what other components may have been damaged.
Immersion sensor pockets or heat exchangers?
I would want to know how the Installer could show that they had not damaged the boiler. They have invalidated the manufacturer's warranty.
This is an installer issue.
N
namsag
How would they have invalidated manufacturers warranty. Yes he made a mistake by leaving loop on. But if the manufacturers say there boiler safety valve should blow at 3 bar and it hasn`t and boiler has gone well over this then it is a manufacturers fault as that is what valve is there for over pressurisation and over heat faults.
Certain stuff posted by OP doesn`t add up ,little bits keep getting added
Certain stuff posted by OP doesn`t add up ,little bits keep getting added
Me too,every time now.
Caught out with a dodgy customer last year who had a lead hot supply pipe burst between the bathroom and kitchen (total nightmare)after fitting a new combi.
Guy told me that I should have told him this would happen and as such would have to pay him some money towards repair(I refused to do it) which,reluctantly, I did.
Did a job last week for a customer who had an EAGA heating system installed .
Installer refused to connect the hot supply from the boiler to the existing lead hot supply so I re-piped the entire hot supply back to the boiler
N
namsag
Todays job , Mate had priced it and rept it. On emptying airing cupboard i notice damp patch at back of cylinder bottom seam gone. We are prepared to take the hit on new cylinder as not customers fault.
Tell customer we are changing it and there attitude is . No bloody way you are paying for that tell me how much and add to bill argument but they are adamant so we will allow them to pay cost but no way will we add anything for extra time for fitting it.
Tell customer we are changing it and there attitude is . No bloody way you are paying for that tell me how much and add to bill argument but they are adamant so we will allow them to pay cost but no way will we add anything for extra time for fitting it.
Yet another gasman.
The pressure relief valve (PRV) starts to open at 3 bar.
You can get various sizes of pressure relief valves; you can get them in 1/2", 1", 2", etc., sizes. The size of the PRV required is selected according to the boiler rating. In this case the PRV would have been selected to have a discharge capacity of not less than 24 kW ( the boiler rating) of steam at (let us say, I'm guessing this number) 3.5 bar.
If, at 3.5 bar, the water enters the system faster than the PRV can discharge it, the system pressure will increase above 3.5 bar. This will decrease the rate at which water enters through the fill loop and increase the rate of discharge from the PRV. At some point either the system will stabilize at a higher pressure or something will burst.
The PRV is there to deal with a failure of the controls. It is not sized to deal with an open connection to the mains water. It also seems likely that it has become obstructed by sludge, as I said previously.
The boiler pressure rating has been exceeded and some components may have been damaged by the excessive pressure.
The OP hasn't changed anything, his account has been consistent throughout.
Must be where I live Namsag 
Every single job (boiler) I tell them that the rads can burst,pipework(hot,cold and heating) can burst and mixer showers might not work and I follow that lot up in writing.
Most times they ask me these question so I simply confirm what someone les has told them.
Some of them go white at the gills
Every single job (boiler) I tell them that the rads can burst,pipework(hot,cold and heating) can burst and mixer showers might not work and I follow that lot up in writing.
Most times they ask me these question so I simply confirm what someone les has told them.
Some of them go white at the gills
N
namsag
ONETAP yep you are guesing guy said it was dripping , So if it was getting far too much water in it would be discharging at full blast.
Tonyboy think it helps all our work is from recommendation and customers know we are not trying to take the P
Tonyboy think it helps all our work is from recommendation and customers know we are not trying to take the P
N
namsag
Onetap guy tells us it at 3 bar then its not, Been making funny banging noises for days (possible welds going) . Then seemingly a guy only came out yesterday morning and forgot to turn loop off, Then he is on net telling us what is happening when guy is actually there fixing it(would you not be asking guy on site).
Needle on grey but then way past the red. But still only dripping
SO PRV not working properly so boiler manufacturer fault. SIMPLE
Needle on grey but then way past the red. But still only dripping
SO PRV not working properly so boiler manufacturer fault. SIMPLE
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local