new boiler recomendations from the pro's

[calum63]

Hi there got bit of a dilemma here. MY parents are getting a new kitchen fitted at some point in january and my dad thinking of getting a new boiler (probably will) because he thinks the old one is inefficient and is in the wrong place and in his on words "too close to the wall" .its located in the kitchen which is as good as a place as any. the garage has been converted into a room.

The boiler currently is a ideal classic lx ff260 and is working fine as always. my dad just wants the boiler replaced he has no idea. my mother on the other hand wants a combi but I tried to explain they are best suited for flats and a conventional boiler is the way to go,I think in a way she understood, we have a typical 2 floor house with 3 bedrooms.

I have tried to explain there is nothing with boiler and it is one of the best and will last them a life time.

both parent are completely clueless when it comes to diy mainly electrics and plumbing they don't understand the works involved and trying explaining to them is like banging your head against a wall.

so when the time finally comes. I will do my best to convince them to leave it but if I fail what would be the best replacement for an ideal classic boiler. thanks

 

[Dan Robinson]

Intergas 18ov

 

[PullerGas]

Don't do it Calum!! The Classic is one of the best boilers Ideal ever made, cast iron heat exchanger & simple controls - it'll last 30+ years mate. The only problem with the classic is the fan, but that's the same with loads of boilers. If you're worried about your Mum & Dad, buy a spare fan & have it ready if the worst happens.

You look after them fella, I now longer have mine & miss them every day.....

 

[dilalio]

A decent combi can handle your dwelling and consumption needs, if your pressure and dynamic flow are good.

After much research, I decided on a combi and went for the ATAG IC Economiser 35. It's been in for about 6 weeks and I'm very happy with it so far. It was also simple to install.

Was also glad to be able to get rid of all the rest of the old vented system: HWC, pump, valves, CWS, programmer, roomstat etc... Which were all old and costly to replace at some point in the future! Plus the space they occupied!

My colleagues and I are now recommending them to customers. We do not get commission from ATAG for doing this.

 

[calum63]

thanks for your replies, I will do my best to save this old girl. There was a problem infact the only problem I can ever remember a few years back and that was the fan seizing, the engineer came out put a bit of wd40 gave it a few spins and BINGO its working again and has worked fine ever since. I will try to get hold of a fan for the future. anything else to look for?. thanks

 

[dilalio]

Well. It's worth looking at how efficient it still is?! Weigh up cost of new install against running costs over next 3-5 years or so, etc...

 

[bernardgreen]

Don't do it Calum!! The Classic is one of the best boilers Ideal ever made, cast iron heat exchanger & simple controls

I agree with that, ( based on the Classic in a friend's house )

Combi's are more difficult to service ( too much packed into a small metal box ), non vented systems need specially trained and qualified technicians ( G3 ) to install and service them.

A more modern boiler may be more efficient but as already mentioned it will be many years before the savings in gas consumption pay for the cost of the new boiler.

It annoys me when some installers put pressure on customers to go for a combi when it is not the best option for the customer but is the best option for the installer's profit margins.

One greedy little rat even charged a couple for removing the scrap pipes and tanks from their house with its new combi saying he had to pay to dispose of it.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Combi's are more difficult to service

Twaddle

One greedy little rat even charged a couple for removing the scrap pipes and tanks from their house with its new combi saying he had to pay to dispose of it.

Waste transfer licence? Scrap prices are far lower than labour rates.

 

[bernardgreen]

Twaddle

Divertor valve inside the combi boilers casing

Look at the picture in this thread
http://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/baxi-combi-instant-105-he-diverter-valve-leaking-help.168154/
where you can see the diverter valve is part of the pipe work assembled inside the boiler.

Then look at a valve like this
.

which is external from the boiler and easy to access.

 

[Dan Robinson]

FFS.

 

[bernardgreen]

Dan You look at it from the installer's point of view which a valid point of view but that is a point of view very different for the customer's point of view.

Compare the cost of changing the actuator on a three port valve ( or two port valves ) with the cost of changing the diverter valve inside a combi. And the need to find a qualified person to come and work in the combi where as any competent electrician or DIYer can change the actuator on a three port valve.

 

[Agile]

I really don't understand why so many installers are so keen to fit a combi boiler.

They have their place, but thats in small flats and houses where no more than two people live.

A properly sized cylinder ( ideally unvented ) will give better performance and be more convenient to live with.

Another advantage of replacing an existing heat only boiler with a similar type is the lower cost if the cylinder can be kept. Typically £1600 compared with converting to a combi at £2300 at my prices.

Even if the cylinder does need changing that can be done a year or two later.

 

[dilalio]

I think it's fair to say that it comes down to the relationship between a customer & and their contractor of choice... It's why I take the time to listen to customer's wants and don't wants, if I don't agree with them, I politely make my point and why but I don't try to steamroller them into seeing things my way... It's not good for business and they won't thank you for it, although quite often, I find they do take on board what I offer up and make changes to their plans accordingly!

It's all down to the relationship!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Well if Bernard thinks it is a challenge then it must be so.

For what it is worth, I can change a diverter valve on a product from our range a lot quicker than Bernard could change any externally mounted valve.


However, also for the record, we as a company fit more heat only and system boilers than combis.


It's about finding the right solution to the problem in hand.

houses where no more than two people live.

Is also a (typical) gross simplification.

at my prices.

Which are often unrealistic or plucked out of thin air.


However, back to Bernard and his cloud cookoo land.....

Combi's are more difficult to service ( too much packed into a small metal box )

Was the original sweeping statement. Nothing to do with repairs. Although that being said, I can think of half a dozen combis where changing the Actuator alone is even easier still compared to the one pictured.


Like I said. More twaddle from one of our resident Googlewombles. All we need now is JohnD to chime in.

 

[simond]

Blimey Dan, you're on good form today