new build windows

[Silvertip]

Hi People,
i am trying to get a mate out of a bind on his self build - has anyone got a copy of their windows PAS24 certificate they might send me?
hes had everything inspected but hes missing this bit of paperwork to get his completion certificate, hes somehow ticked the box for his door but not the window order.

any help appreciated massively.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

@ronniecabers
@crank39

 

[crank39]

Unfortunately I only work in the service and repair side of things so can't help, maybe @ronniecabers could but not sure

 

[ronniecabers]

PAS 24 certificate would come direct from manufacturer ( via installer ). In theory he only needs to prove the uvalues and that they conform to PAS24. Guessing here that it's built conforming to Doc Q building regs ?

 

[Silvertip]

So when ordering the front door he selected the pas24 option, when ordering his windows he didn’t so he won’t get the certificate for them. I’m hoping some one would forward me a copy that we can just put in the folder with all the others just to check the box, to save him having to retro fit different glass on his own house ££. The house has has the last inspection they just want all the certificates sent in if that makes sense

 

[ronniecabers]

I understand where you are coming from but no company is going to pass on a certificate knowing the frames don't conform, it's not risk their registration. And most certificates are based on the items purchased ( eg dates , profile etc). If he was after PaS 24 then he was prepared to pay the extra for better sealed units etc so why not change them? I'm guessing if selfbuild he fitted himself. It's an unfortunate situation/error but just can't see how anyone is going to give you their certificates as strictly speaking it's fraudulent.

Good luck on your request though but I certainly can't help here

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Not really knowing the ins and outs of what makes a window achieve the PAS 24 standard, only now having had a bit of a google, is it possible to make modifications to his windows to make them compliant? Isn't it just more secure ironmongery?

 

[Silvertip]

I think if it gets picked up we might be able to apply a security film, but potentially re glaze or worst case replace the whole ground floor. It’s a shame they are nice windows and I’m not really clear on what extra would of been needed, he just assumed anything sold now days would meet the minimum standard the inspector was happy on his final inspection but obviously needs to check the box on the paperwork

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

No doubt his house insurance would be invalidated if they were not compliant too. Has he spoken with the supplier to see if they can be upgraded and certification issued?

 

[ronniecabers]

Yes they could be altered but looks like ops friend isn't prepared to spend the extra money ( that most of would have been spent at Initial order if PAS24 ticked ). Declaring as PAS 24 and the god forbid he gets burgled, he runs a real risk of no payment PLUS the inspector may yet return to inspect IF a certificate is produced.
I'm going to make an assumption that this was not a local double glazing company they were purchased from as I'm sure they would have known and advised for Document Q/PAS24. An online/mail order double glazing company will only order what you specify I'm afraid so never make an assumption about what you are purchasing

 

[Silvertip]

After some more digging- we have found these windows appear to come part q compliant as standard and simply emailing the manufacturer to get the missing pdf is all that’s needed so that is a weight off- they weren’t cheap windows. Thank you for all the comments - certainly something to be mindful of in the future on a new build.

 

[crank39]

Good news then, I would however check that all the ground floor windows and any 1st floor windows that fall within scope of PAS24 have 6.8mm laminated glass to the outer panes, if the manufacturer has fitted laminated automatically then great stuff

 

[ronniecabers]

I'm glad you interpret it the same way I have @crank39 . A local building inspector failed a local build for no lami in the doors but said the windows were OK. When customer asked me for price to change the glass in the doors I noticed the windows weren't lami too, obviously customer didn't want price for that as building inspector had passed them! Seem so many inconsistencies between building control and what the window industry have to do lately

 

[crank39]

I'm currently seeing a lot of cracked units where the outer 6.8 has cracked because its physically too tight to fit in the frame i.e. 70mm frame/28mm units, 65mm/24mm are even worse, looks like someone didn't give this PAS24 much thought

 

[Silvertip]

Yes bit of a mine field. I did read something on the LABC site about glass not being as important for part q “There is no specification for glass for Part Q compliance where the window is not coupled with or adjacent to a door and has locking hardware.” And then “Making an opportunist thief break the glass and need to clear or climb through broken glass is considered to be a sufficient deterrent for regulatory purposes.” So there is going to be some confusion somewhere I guess. Thanks for all your thoughts tho it’s certainly food for thought going forward.