hi i have purchased a couple of spotlights to replace my 2 light fans in my kitchen and when i took the first one down i have a live and neutral cable but the only earth cable is the one that is fixed to the metal part of the light fitting which is screwed to the fitting and the spot also has one screwed to the fitting but i dont have a earth cable coming from the ceiling itself , is this a fault as the original light/fan seemd to work ok without one
new ceiling lights
- Thread starter wilsamsaints
- Start date
If you don't have an earth going back to the main earth terminal via the consumer unit then you cannot have metal lamps, especially those that need earthing.
If you have a close look at the cables entering the old lamps - you may find a clipped back earth and you may be able to recover it. However, you would still need to check that the lighting circuit is properly connected to the earth.
there is no earth cable just the one that is fixed to the metal plate of the fan and that was screwed in to the earth part of the block
if i can find some plastic but metal looking spots would they be ok to fix without earthing
if i can find some plastic but metal looking spots would they be ok to fix without earthing
If you don't have an earth supply for the light circuit then you cannot use any metal lamps unless they are Category 2 (double insulated) signed.
The instructions that come with the lights will indicate the earthing requirements - all the metal down lights I have seen require earthing.
This website is one of several that offer Category 2 lights - that might meet you requirements.
http://www.double-insulated-lighting.co.uk/?gclid=CMj2xfn17bkCFbIPtAodd1cAGw
it cant be that old as the colours are blue/brown and the consumer unit doesnt look that old , the house itself was built in the 50 s
do you think that maybe the earth has been cut back a long way ? i have tried to pull the main sleeve back but there isnt a lot of play in the cable itself
do you think that maybe the earth has been cut back a long way ? i have tried to pull the main sleeve back but there isnt a lot of play in the cable itself
Houses built after the early 1960's had to have earth lighting circuits.
If the lighting circuit cables are the modern colours then it should also contain an earth.
Have you checked your other ceiling roses in rooms nearby to see if they use the same colours and have an earth. Have you checked the switch that will operate these new lights to see if it has the new colours and an earth to the backbox.
It is possible that the original wiring is still in place and there is no earth for the lighting circuit and new wiring installed has had the earth cut back to avoid the belief that there was.
The only way to really know is to examine the lighting circuit at the Consumer Unit and see if an earth is connected there and that it then leads to the Main Earthing Terminal. And also check what type of earthing system is present for the whole house.
A brown and blue cable that has solid copper wire is almost certainly new twin and earth, which would have an earth wire.
A brown and blue FLEX, with flexible stranded wire, could be a lot older. This may or may not have an earth core. It's unusual to wire houses completely in this, so there may well be a joint pushed up into the ceiling void.
Therefore, have a look and see if a joint has been pushed into the ceiling void - there may be earth wires here.
Turn the power completely off before starting this.
A brown and blue FLEX, with flexible stranded wire, could be a lot older. This may or may not have an earth core. It's unusual to wire houses completely in this, so there may well be a joint pushed up into the ceiling void.
Therefore, have a look and see if a joint has been pushed into the ceiling void - there may be earth wires here.
Turn the power completely off before starting this.
thanks for that , what worries me now is that i have put the fan/lights back up and there is still no earth attached except for the peice that is screwed on to the fixing plate but as its been like that since we moved in 5 years ago and nothing has happened i am either very lucky or am worrying over nothing
You wont know whether your house lighting circuits have an earth until you check at the CU and test the circuit throughout.
I have been to many houses where the owners were totally unaware that their lighting circuit had no earth - though some of them had 'electricians' in to fit metal faced switches and metal lamps. I suppose they will only become aware if something goes wrong and they get a belt.
In assessing the danger ceiling lights etc are generally not touched very often - to clean and change bulbs mainly - but a metal light switch is touched on a more regular basis. If you have any of them then you may want to replace them with plastic versions.
At the end of the day it is your property and you will have to assess the potential danger to you and your family. If there is no earth to the light circuit(s) then to get one will require a considerable amount of rewiring.
By loosening a few ceiling rose lids (if you have any) around the place will give you a quick indication if the circuit is earthed.
This of course will only give guidance, and further investigation will be required.
This of course will only give guidance, and further investigation will be required.
I always think that a car, and seatbelts, airbags etc make a good analogy.
I could have driven my car, every day for the past umpty years, with no seatbelts and no airbags and still be here unharmed, through, I guess, a mix of skill and luck. Were you to send me out today in a car with no seatbelts and no airbags, I would worry, and I would not be worrying over nothing.
The earth is there to protect you, quite possibly save your life, if something goes wrong. In your shoes I'd be more worried about what other nasty little surprises have been done to your wiring elsewhere if it's been fiddled with by the sort of stupendously ignorant and dangerous fool who would cut the earth core in a cable back, or use a cable without an earth in it.
Even if the fan was faulty and the case became live you would not come to any harm unless you touched it and earth at the same time.
Guess that would require you to climb a metal earthed ladder. But you would switch the power off if you did that wouldn't you?
thanks for all the replies i think i will have a look at my hallway rose and see if there is an earth as the lounge has wall lights (metal ones at that) so wont be touching them , and if no show on the earth i will be getting an expert in
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