NEW HOUSE DISASTER

[leeways]

Hi, I am in need of some help. I have a brand new house in an exclusive development. It is a townhouse which has been built with a foundation for a solid ground floor, but unfortunately incorporates a suspended timber floor. The builder basically wants to drop the ground level by digging a moat around the house! There are no vents in the floor void and even if there were you can only place one at the front and a couple at the back. We have a garage and level front door and a level rear door. The ground level is above the damp proof course we have water coming in under the front and rear doors and the gable wall has overshot the foundations by 75mm! There is no dpc under the timber frame and I haven't spotted the dpc in the gable wall.
Please don't mention the NHBC or Local Council as they have both issued completion certificates and say its the builders responsibility to get it sorted. I know it is the builder but we don't want him to carry out any repairs and want our money back! It is not what we paid for.
The subfloor ventilation is a problem for all the houses in the line and I don't think any terraced house is suitable for suspended timber floors as you can't guarantee adequate cross flow ventilation.
Are you all aware that the NHBC cert and the Council Completion cert is meaningless.

 

[PerryOne]

Basically wooden ground floors are difficult to make and difficult to insulate.
The logic of a wooden ground floor goes back to days of open fires and lots of drafts, with air being sucked under the floors by the fires. Open fires have mostly gone and from 2016 they will be banned in new builds. Now days the wood floor and joists rely on conduction and radiation from the room above to keep the wood temperature above dew point. And as long as it is the floor will be OK. Cross draft wind suction has little effect and it merely introduces cold wet air under the floor, something you don't want.
A properly constructed solid concrete floor is so much easier to make and insulate.
I have a moat round my home, its disguised as a French drain but is at times full of water, keeping the water below the dpc is easy as it is open to the sky at ground level in the front of our home.

 

[noseall]

Open fires have mostly gone and from 2016 they will be banned in new builds.

really?

 

[PerryOne]

There are 26.7 million or so homes in the UK.
Over 20 Million of them are heated with gas.
Really!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

 

[noseall]

and from 2016 they will be banned in new builds.

que?

 

[jeds]

If you think your house is seriously defective you need to tackle NHBC. Forget local authority builidng control they - bizarrely - have no responsibility.

I've dealt with NHBC many times over the years and in the past they have been next to useless. Remember they are paid £millions by the builders each year so the builders are really their clients, not you. I recently had dealings on a fairly susbstantial case though and they were actually pretty good - in fact they forced the builder to undertake about £50k worth of work on 2 blocks of flats. To achieve that sort of result though you will need some professional backup and the threat of some serious action behind you.

My advice first off is to get a survey by a local building surveyor to advise you on the present situation, what your repair options are and if there are any potential long term issues. If that report is in your favour then next stop is the solicitors.

 

[PerryOne]

http://www.entecuk.com/news03_50_f.html

Level 6 – the zero-carbon level -will require investment in district heating (wood chip heating)– will require the use of solar panels, or wind turbines in order to replace entirely the energy taken from the national grid. The additional points to achieve a six-star rating must require investment in energy efficient appliances, reduction of surface water run-off, and the application of a site waste-management plan.

The Code for Sustainable Homes (CSH) aims to achieve a step-change in environmental performance of new UK homes setting out a timetable to reduce carbon emission in new build housing to Zero by 2016 via new Building Regulations.

CSH is targeted at architects, home designers and builders of new homes and covers water use, waste generation, and the use of low-polluting materials and processes as well as energy.


Code level 6
Zero-Carbon –will also require PV panels in order to replace entirely the energy taken from the national grid. The additional points to achieve a six-star rating must require investment in energy efficient appliances, reduction of surface water run-off, and the application of a site waste-management plan.
Current status - Mandatory for all in 2016

As I remember it, the 6 star rating is mandatory for all new builds 2016
Projects of more than 10 homes will require wood chip district heating, smaller projects will be resistence heating. The electric industry sold the idea to Tony Blair based on new atomic power stations.

 

[Thermo]

but open fires are carbon nuetral aren't they (well wood burning ones)

 

[Shytalkz]

More to the point, you can't beat a real fire for that feeling of cozyness and that all is well with the world. And toasting marshmallows on a rad or on ufh is a no-no...

 

[climber101]

"I know it is the builder" - is it one of the 2 or 3 large builders in Aberdeenshire like xxx - i'm not wanting you to name all i wanted to say is for these large outfits i am aware of people who have had success in major rectifications using NHBC

this ground level above DPC where is that all round the house or on certain aspects. In a number of new build house i have been studying i have noticed that whilst in the build stage the house was well "out of" the ground when they have come back to fill in the top soil/landsape it looked a lot more sunken. What I'm trying to say is ther a possibility here that it was ok before they made up the ground around the house and instead of creating a small moat they should be doing a larger re-landscape to correct.

 

[PerryOne]

but open fires are carbon neutral aren't they (well wood burning ones)[/quote]


Are wood fires carbon neutral?
They may well be at a technical level?
However, when you walk through our village on a winters day, and there is an area of high pressure, the air is full of wood smoke, sometimes its like blue fog, this multiplied by 20,000 homes is what living in a small town was like years ago.
The odd fire in the country may be OK but when there are lots together and the smoke is dropping back to the ground, it doesn't feel carbon neutral.

 

[leeways]

No they basically just built it to the wrong foundation drawings and they can't lower the ground level all round as the site drains, services etc wouldn't be deep enough.
The real worry for me is the lack of sub floor ventilation, one grille ay the front and two at the back. We can't have more at the front as there is a solid floor garage and the front door is at ground level![/quote]

 

[PerryOne]

In your blog of the 1st, you say that water is running into your home under the front and back doors.
Is it getting under the suspended wood floor?

The builder wants to make a French drain?
Both across the back and front of the property to contain the excess water?

OK so assume the French drains are in place, they are full of water and there is nothing to say that the water is still not running under the front and back doors. Where will the excess water go?

Where does the water from the roof go?

The worry about lack of ventilation under the floor?
Joists and often floor boards were laid directly on the ground years ago, they rotted.
Someone thought up the idea of raising them off the floor and having a ventilated space, this improved their survival.
But there was little understanding why this was. Some thought it was the wind blowing under the floor, some the wind sucking the air out from under the floor.

No one stopped to think why the upstairs none ventilated enclosed joists and floor boards don't rot, while the ventilated joists and floor boards at ground floor do.

The answer is that cold joists and floor boards attract condensation leading to wood rot.

Joists and boards that are warmed do not attract condensation and remain dry.

Most joists and floor boards at ground level are warmed by the room above by conduction and radiation. Not all, as some rooms are cold.
Therefore, joists and floor boards at ground level that are well insulated keep warm and dry and do not rot.
An insulated none ventilated dry cellar or crawl space is best.

 

[leeways]

Noted but unfortunately we have what we have. Going on the basis we do need ventilation of the sub floor surely one grille at the front and two at the back is not going to be adequate. The water is coming into the sub floor it runs down the blockwork of the foundation. There is a drainage system front and back and the builder wants to put a drain at the front and back door, I am assuming in the hope that the rainwater shoots down the drain before it reaches the house!