New house strange(?) mains socket wiring

[stringman]

I wonder if you can help me?
I have just moved into a new house which was rewired by the previous owner and has had all the safety checks done but I am a bit confused by the wiring of the plugs

In the kitchen there was a single socket (which should have been a double in my mind) so I thought it must be a spur. but when I tracked the wiring. it had 2 wires (in and out) and the out wire went to another double socket, but terminated there, So it cant bi a ring system?

Lots of the sockets have 3 sets of wires going into them, I would presume that this would be a ring and a spur? but I thought spurs had to be single sockets and there are no single sockets.

lastly there is one double socket in the attic bedroom. I was hoping to break the ring and add in 2 or 3 more sockets but on investigation there is just one wire.
could this be a radial system? if so can I just "tack on " the extra sockets?

it almost seems like he has installed a mixture of radial and ring circuits from the same breaker.

All help appreciated

 

[Taylortwocities]

In the kitchen there was a single socket (which should have been a double in my mind) so I thought it must be a spur. but when I tracked the wiring. it had 2 wires (in and out) and the out wire went to another double socket, but terminated there, So it cant bi a ring system?

You need to firstly determine if the circuits you are concerned about are rings, or are wired as radials.
Some work is needed with a low ohm continuity tester to find this out.
A clue MAY be the value of the MCB that protects the circuit in the consumer unit.
Your kitchen sockets may be a radial, so no problem. If the circuit is a ring then the second socket is not wired correctly as it would be a spur from a spur, and that does not conform to the regulations.

Lots of the sockets have 3 sets of wires going into them, I would presume that this would be a ring and a spur? but I thought spurs had to be single sockets and there are no single sockets.

Additional sockets spurred from a ring final can be single, or double.

lastly there is one double socket in the attic bedroom. I was hoping to break the ring and add in 2 or 3 more sockets but on investigation there is just one wire.
could this be a radial system? if so can I just "tack on " the extra sockets?

If it is a radial, then you can add sockets, if not (it may be a spur from a radial) then your would need to replace the existing socket with an FCU and add extra sockets on the load side of the FCU.

it almost seems like he has installed a mixture of radial and ring circuits from the same breaker.

It is more likely that he has a ring from the MCB and has run a spur from the same MCB. That is OK, provided that spur only goes to one place.

Hope this helps.

 

[deadshort]

Well that needs no further clarification !

DS

 

[Taylortwocities]

I've been revising!

 

[stringman]

Taylor,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.

With regards to the kitchen, I think it must be a radial as before the sale they had to have the electrics tested and signed off so I cant see that if it was a spur off a spur that would have passed (though I seem to remember that there was a fcu before the socket, would that change things at all?)

With regards to the attic room; presuming that it is a spur (is there a way, apart from chasing the wire back to find this out) is it a matter of just fitting a FCU and then running in the extra sockets? would I run them as radial or a mini ring?
also should the FCU be rated at 13a

Its all very strange as each of the bedrooms only have one socket. If they all had a single wire I would say they are all spurs but they have 2 wires (apart from the attic)

I want to add more sockets in each room so I was working on the theory that if there is 2 wires I can just "extend the ring" and if there is 3 I do the same (once I have found out which is the spur)
its never easy finishing off someone elses job!

 

[Taylortwocities]

There is so much that you do not know and, without typing out 50,000 words teaching you the principles of electrical circuits, there's not much more i can help you with.
But some suggestions:
1. Read up on the principles of radial and ring final circuits

2. In answer to

is there a way, apart from chasing the wire back to find this out

get yourself a test meter, and learn how to use it. You can discover everything you need to know by simple continuity testing, starting at the consumer unit. Then you will find out where the cables are routed. That is what every electrician has to do when he is adding new sockets to a circuit.

3. You say

before the sale they had to have the electrics tested and signed off

FANTASTIC!! so a report will have been produced - you should have a copy with the house documents. READ IT. This document will TELL you if a circuit is a radial or a ring!

4. re

With regards to the kitchen,........ I cant see that if it was a spur off a spur that would have passed (though I seem to remember that there was a fcu before the socket, would that change things at all?)

Yes. As I said before, if you have an FCU as a spur from a ring, you can add a hundred sockets to the load side (bearing in mind that the maximum current will be limited by the fuse size in the FCU.

5. Re

presuming

. We do not presume, or assume. We test and determine. There is no other way!

6. Re

Its all very strange as each of the bedrooms only have one socket. If they all had a single wire I would say they are all spurs but they have 2 wires (apart from the attic)

Houses of a certain age often only had one socket in a bedroom. If they had two cables, they could be on a ring, or they could be part of a radial circuit, or they could be spurs from spurs. My points 1 & 2 will resolve this conundrum.
PS, please use the right words. Cables are not the same as wires. Cables are the big tube things that have several wires (better known as conductors) in them. But I think I know what you mean.

End of treatise.

 

[stringman]

Taylor,

Many thanks.
when I find the report I will read it.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why are you wearing a thong on your head?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Its a thong, at twilight.

 

[EFLImpudence]

And it looks like he is reading Arabic or similar - R to L from the back.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Could be Hebrew - Thong of Tholomon.