New installation query?

[GaryinAshby]

Hi. I have now had two quotes for having the wiring done in my new extension. Both electricians contradict each other slightly & I'd like more opinions please!

The extesnion is a single storey, two living rooms, bathroom & utility. 7 double sockets, 4 lights, 2 fans & a shower. All pretty straight forward.

1. The CU in the house is 10 years old with no RCD, so replacing the board is the easiest option. Again, straightforward.

But, my garage is currently fed from its own 32A MCB. I am restoring an old American car which means I occasionally use a welder and compressor and my concern is that this could easily trip an RCD. Sparky 1 says it won't, so RCD is fine. Sparky 2 says a welder will trip an RCD straight away and he can leave the garage without RCD protection and this will be okay.

2. BCO has said that all four lights need to be low energy fittings (ie. cannot take standard bulbs). Sparky 1 says that is correct. Sparky 2 says that it is not correct and that if there are 4 rooms or less in the new extension, only ONE of them has to be a low energy fitting.

Both sparkys will supply a certificate to comply with Part P.

Which of them is right? I don't want to pay out my money, have a certificate & the BCO refuse to accept it.

Any guidance much appreciated.

 

[Chri5]

BCO do vary and do like to enforce LE lights.

I'd supply standard light fittings and use BC LE lamps. From what I remember they should only insist on a percentage of the site being LE and you may find that by simply telling BC you entend to change all BC's that exist in the house to LE they will wave the requirement in the extension.

If the garage is external it should have RCD protection, more so if it's a sub mains unit feeding garden, shed etc.

I'd suggest a dedecated circuit for the welder on the non RCD side of the new CU. Welding equipment and RCD's don't like each other much. have you any idea of the elders load in amps ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Tell them you want the tails split, with a separate sub-main to the garage via a switch-fuse in the house.

Mini CU in the garage with regular BS1363 sockets on an RCD or RCBO, lights not RCD, and a dedicated non-RCD socket for the welder, appropriately labelled. As belt'n'braces you could use a socket with a non-standard earth profile to make it really hard to plug anything else in, or a 16A BS EN 60309 socket.

If the electrician is registered the BCO has no say in whether the certificate is acceptable or not - it just is.

PS - missed the LE light question.

Basically there is absolutely no specific mandatory requirement for any low-energy lamps, and certainly not for luminaires which will only accept such lamps, so it's up to you how much you want to go toe-to-to with the BCO repeatedly asking him to show you where the Building Regulations actually say what he claims until he either gives up or refuses to give you a certificate leaving you with a court action as your only recourse.

Or you could cynically install LE pendants and then change them afterwards.

 

[Steve]

On point 2, LE lamps, why are you concerned? Surely you want to make the extension as cheap to run as you can? There are some very nice LE light fittings out there if you look.

http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=low+energy+light+fittings

 

[GaryinAshby]

Thanks for the fast replies. The garage is seperate to the house but does not feed anything else. The 32A MCB in the house CU feeds a small CU in the garage, the garage sockets being protected by a 16A MCB. The idea of using a 16A socket for the welder is usefull, having RCD on everything else.

Regarding the lights, the only reason I didn't like the idea of using LE dedicated fittings was the poor choice of styles.

Once again, thanks for the info.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Basically there is absolutely no specific mandatory requirement for any low-energy lamps, and certainly not for luminaires which will only accept such lamps, so it's up to you how much you want to go toe-to-to with the BCO repeatedly asking him to show you where the Building Regulations actually say what he claims until he either gives up or refuses to give you a certificate leaving you with a court action as your only recourse.

Not sure if that's true.

Building Regs Part L2 clearly specify the number of LE lamps required when a property is extended. You can put them in the existing building.

Untitled

• Taylortwocities
• 6 Jan 2009
• 1

Untitled

• Taylortwocities
• 6 Jan 2009
• 1

Also note that fitting standard lamp holders (BC etc) and putting in LEs is not permitted. TYhey have to be specific LE fittings that will only accept CFLs, etc.

 

[Spark123]

You mean those horrid 3 pin BC caps? The ones that as soon as the BC goes away everyone just swops for normal ones?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not sure if that's true.

Building Regs Part L2 clearly specify the number of LE lamps required when a property is extended. You can put them in the existing building.

The Building Regulations don't have a Part L2, only a Part L, and this is what it says:

Also note that fitting standard lamp holders (BC etc) and putting in LEs is not permitted. TYhey have to be specific LE fittings that will only accept CFLs, etc.

Also note that it doesn't say that in the Building Regulations either.

You're quoting from Approved Document L2, which is not the law, only guidance, and which will say at the start something like

Approved Documents are intended to provide
guidance for some of the more common building
situations. However, there may well be alternative
ways of achieving compliance with the
requirements. Thus there is no obligation to
adopt any particular solution contained in an
Approved Document if you prefer to meet the
relevant requirement in some other way.

 

[Click-Sure]

You mean those horrid 3 pin BC caps? The ones that as soon as the BC goes away everyone just swops for normal ones?

Don't you just get sick of it!

If only there was an almost universal fitting, the lamps for which are commonly available at reasonable prices in retail outlets.
Oh yeah, BC and ES.

Incandecent GLS (BC & ES) lamps are being phased out anyay, so what is the big hu-hah anyway.

When I sign off my own work I sign it off in accordance with all building regulations, not just part P, so that should be good enough for the LABC.

 

[Taylortwocities]

BAS, wish I had the time to read all of the fine detail.
Sorry. I was quoting from Part L1B (Existing Buildings).

You're right, Part L1A doesnt't have the weasly guidance wording at the beginning that L1B has

however....

in the real World.

The BCO will come to site for a modest extension of a house and will insist on:
a 25% population of low energy light fittings (where, it now seems this is only guidance)
fire-rated downlights where non is required
mains interlinked smoke alarms (also not required on extensions except for loft extensions).

Click-Sure

When I sign off my own work I sign it off in accordance with all building regulations, not just part P, so that should be good enough for the LABC.

Me too but visiting BCOs seem to have their own view on things...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The BCO will come to site for a modest extension of a house and will insist on:
a 25% population of low energy light fittings (where, it now seems this is only guidance)
fire-rated downlights where non is required
mains interlinked smoke alarms (also not required on extensions except for loft extensions).

"So, Mr. BCO - here I have a copy of the Building Regulations which I have printed off from a Government website. Could you please show me where they say I have to do what you're saying I have to?"