new pond, help/advice/guidance

[browfish]

29 Minutes Ago

We are about to embark on some pretty major alterations to our bungalow to add a second story and modernise its appearce. With the facelift to the front elevation i intend to install a pond feature. The front garden slopes away from the house so i intend to build a series of 3 semi raised ponds with the top one feeding down to the bottom. See the very amateur visual of the kind of thing attached.

Untitled

• browfish
• 21 Feb 2011
• 1

The construction will probably be blockwork with a white render to match the house and a slate paving caping. The corner few stones will be a few inches lower to form a an infinity style water fall into the second pond. The third section probably wont be a pond but a raised bog garden with the overflow from teh second pond feeding this.I want it to look fairly contempory

I dont intend the pond to have a heavy fish population, it is more for the feature itself and the planting, however i have no doubt that once i have it in operation the koi bug might bite just as marine fish did indoors (buy buy £1000's).

If i need space for filtration etc, then there is plenty of room behind the pond as there is a 1600mm wide section down the side of the house which is just used for storage at the moment.

Has anyone any advise on anything. I havent got a clue where to start as i have never had a pond before. What should i be thinking about, how should i build it, any design ideas etc etc. I am fairly handy so should be able capable of doing all the works. Hell, i am building the house, im sure the pond cant be any more difficult.

Thanks in advance.

 

[LastMagicBean]

I don't get this at all.

Why would anyone build, what could be, a superb pond/feature facing away from the house.

Madness.

The first problem to overcome here is the design, not the build.

Only my opinion.

 

[big-all]

because its in the front garden i am sure it will need to meet very strict criteria as it may be readily accessible from the public highway

 

[Geometer]

I don't get this at all.

Why would anyone build, what could be, a superb pond/feature facing away from the house.

Madness.

I don't see anything wrong with this. Ponds look, and work, better if they follow the lie of the land, and being horizontal features, they don't "face" in any particular direction. It's quite an elaborate structure to put in a front garden, but that's a different matter (the mind boggles at what you might have in mind for the rear, Browfish! )

I haven't any experience building anything like this, so I can't comment on materials or technique, but a few things occur to me on the design/planting side:

1. You use the term "bog garden". Horticulturally speaking, a bog garden is a planting bed where the substrate is kept moist, by impeding the drainage of rainwater, but not waterlogged. If you're planning a permanent waterfall between the middle tank and the lower, and then pumping it back to the top, you'll have a constant flow of water through the substrate, and it will be waterlogged. It's a fine distinction, but it will have a bearing on your plant selection - "marginal" or "wetland" rather than "bog" plants

2. If you're using a pump, I think you'll need to make sure it is extracting from clear water, not through substrate, i.e. from a pool. The fall will look better if it's into a pool too.

3. Aesthetics are a matter of personal taste, but to my mind, a "bog" or "wetland" looks better (or at least, more natural) at ground level rather than in a raised tank. If you were to lower the bottom tank so that it was flush with the ground, supporting it down-slope with planted embankments rather than rendered walls, I, personally, would find that more pleasing.

HTH
Geometer

 

[LastMagicBean]

I don't see anything wrong with this. Ponds look, and work, better if they follow the lie of the land,

With respect, that's absolute b*llocks. Could you enlighten me.???

and being horizontal features, they don't "face" in any particular direction.,

Are you completely MAD.
Look at the picture again.

I'm not having a pop at your opinion or anything else, just the fact that you are fundamentally wrong.

 

[Jasonb]

Design looks fine to me, always better to have water follow the land, just looks wrong flowing uphill

Judging by the scale of the figure next to the pond you will have a substantial volume of water maybe 3-4000gallons in the top pond which I'm sure you don't want looking pea green so some form of filtration will be a must.

For construction I would suggest hollow concrete blocks infilled with concrete, render on outside and for the inside use a fibre reinforced render with all internal corners radiused and then direct fibreglassing onto that, black topcoat (not gel coat) will look best.

You will also need a substantial flow rate to get a sheet of water over that width around 1500-2000gal per hour but thats about what flow rate you will want through a filter if you get the koi bug (pond volume every 2 hours).

I would actually suggest two pumps, one to filter the water and one just to pump water from the bottom back upto the top. Or as I once had on a 3 level system make it look like the water is flowwing from top to bottom but actually the top pond is not part of the loop.That way you can turn the waterfall off in the winter to prevent chilling and also keep the noise down at night.

The top pond should be kept for the koi (which you will want) and feed the filter through a bottom drain if possible but you may have to opt for a pump feed if the filter position is above finished water level.

There are a few pics of my pond in this album which will give an idea of construction. Its 3500gal and 5 ft deep at the drain.

J

 

[LastMagicBean]

Design looks fine to me,

Am I looking at the wrong picture.?????
Is everyone else looking at an image different to that of a three tiered construction, the view of which would be the 'back' of it from the downstairs windows?????????????

Booking myself into specsavers ASAP.

 

[Geometer]

Are you completely MAD.

I'm not having a pop at your opinion or anything else, just the fact that you are fundamentally wrong.

No, I'm not mad, nor am I wrong . Although I don't practice professionally, I am a professionally qualified garden designer (BA Garden Design, Middlesex University, 1997), and I do know what I'm talking about.

Although it's usually good practice to construct a pond so it can be viewed from the house, it's not compulsory when there are other factors in play, as there are here:

1. This is a front garden feature, and is clearly intended to be viewed from the path and/or the entrance to the garden, as well as the house.

2. Water flows downhill, and it makes both practical and aesthetic sense to "go with the flow". Consider the alternative; if Browfish wanted to construct a tiered water feature that stepped down towards the house, he would have to build his top tank at the bottom of the slope, and build it high enough to be above the level of the higher ground. This would mean a massive structure maybe 6' - 8' high, and strong enough to contain a huge volume of water. It would look absurd, and cost a fortune.

3. Browfish aims to create an "infinity" or "concealed edge" pool (if you're unfamiliar with the term, Wikipedia explains it well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_edge_pool ). The essential point is that the "infinity" effect can only- I repeat, only - be perceived from the top of the feature; in this case, from the window overlooking the top pool.

Although it's a technically ambitious project, the fundamental design principles are perfectly sound.

Geometer

 

[LastMagicBean]

No, I'm not mad, nor am I wrong . Although I don't practice professionally, I am a professionally qualified garden designer (BA Garden Design, Middlesex University, 1997), and I do know what I'm talking about.]

Completely irrelevant.

1. This is a front garden feature, and is clearly intended to be viewed from the path and/or the entrance to the garden, as well as the house.]

Thats entirely up to him. I was merely asking the question, as to why anybody would want to look at the backside of what could be a superb pond.
The OP didn't once state that this structure would be sunken, infact he stated semi-sunken, therefore 'facing' away, and yet you feel it's right to state that no such pond ever faces away.
You didn't even ask him the degree of slope, before you thought about throwing your qualifications at me. MADNESS
Not a design YOU or he should be proud of.

3. Browfish aims to create an "infinity" or "concealed edge" pool (if you're unfamiliar with the term, Wikipedia explains it well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_edge_pool ). The essential point is that the "infinity" effect can only- I repeat, only - be perceived from the top of the feature; in this case, from the window overlooking the top pool.

Very familiar with this term....... But thankyou anyway for treating me like an imbecile.

Although it's a technically ambitious project, the fundamental design principles are perfectly sound.]

No, Could you enlighten me as to why a pond will 'work' better in terms of construction on slopes.?????????

 

[Geometer]

No, Could you enlighten me as to why a pond will 'work' better in terms of construction on slopes.?????????

I don't think the OP will thank either of us if this thread degenerates into a pointless "I know better than you" argument. All I will say is that it is not at all unusual to see water features that "face away" from the house where topography and other design imperatives demand it and, in my opinion, the OP's proposal is a logical and rational solution to a particular brief, entirely in keeping with long-established principles of good garden design.

We've expressed divergent opinions. It's up to the OP to decide who he agrees with and who he doesn't. Shall we leave it at that?

 

[LastMagicBean]

*deleted*

 

[browfish]

Not sure why this has turned into an arguement but thank you geometer for your comments, not sure what problem magic bean has with you. Thanks jasonb for your useful input too.
I am perfectly happy with the design the reason being
a) the biggest reason, i come in and out of the front door everyday as does anyone visiting the house, so the feature built in the front garden will be viewed alot more than if it was in the rear
b) i have kids and do not want a water feature in the back garden. We live on a road (not a busy one) so there are greater reasons why our kids are not allowed in the fron on their own.
c) you do not look at the back of the pond when looking out the front window, but the top of top pond as you would with any other pond out of a window. You will also be above to see the lower ponds too.

The proposed bog section will be jsut that. I dont plan on having a permanent waterfall into this section, however i do intend the rain overflow from the top ponds to feed this. The roof of the main house will also feed the top pond to keep this up and provide natural water changes. I shall divert the down pipe in the winter so as to not make it too boggy out of the growing season.

 

[Geometer]

I am perfectly happy with the design the reason being
a) the biggest reason, i come in and out of the front door everyday as does anyone visiting the house, so the feature built in the front garden will be viewed alot more than if it was in the rear
b) i have kids and do not want a water feature in the back garden. We live on a road (not a busy one) so there are greater reasons why our kids are not allowed in the fron on their own.
c) you do not look at the back of the pond when looking out the front window, but the top of top pond as you would with any other pond out of a window. You will also be above to see the lower ponds too..

An entirely rational set of criteria for siting a pond.

The proposed bog section will be jsut that. I dont plan on having a permanent waterfall into this section, however i do intend the rain overflow from the top ponds to feed this. The roof of the main house will also feed the top pond to keep this up and provide natural water changes. I shall divert the down pipe in the winter so as to not make it too boggy out of the growing season.

OK, that makes sense.

May I ask, did you do your drawing by hand and scan it, or did you draw it on the computer? If the latter, I'd like to know what software you used, as nothing I've got gives results that good.

Geometer

 

[Jasonb]

Looks a bit like it was done in Sketchup to me.

J

 

[leeco]

That pond would look nice. If you are planning on stocking it with Kio then you might want to think about the depth as kio need about 1+ meter depth.