New Regulations on Installing a Regular Condensing Boiler

[grayt]

Has anyone found that under the new regulations say if you're boiler flue where it is was fine before April 2005, but now isn't coz you have to have a replacement condenser boiler, and you need to have it moved coz it's not positioned within the new regulations, do you find that some Corgi installers tell you conflicting info against the new regulations? (Trying to make sense here). I've been quoted a few times by different Corgi registered installers, but cannot really compare the quotes as they have not been broken down specifically enough for the work being done, and the other prob is that the work they say needs doing differs. Some say my gas pipe needs changing from the meter, others say no, and advise a certain make of boiler, then another will say you can have our existing pipe connected to any make of boiler. When it comes to the quotes I do ask for a bit more info on what model of programmer I will be getting, how much it costs say if they think I should move the boiler to another wall, a closet, or the loft, how much it is for labour etc, but they don't like to say. Another thing is having a Powerflush puts the installation price right up, they say if you don't have one, your new boiler won't be working optimally, and other plumbers don't like to flush, but use another way of cleaning the system, say it's less intensive. I'd like to know what I'm getting for my money, and why not all Corgi guys abide by the new regulations. It's worrying really. Has anyone else had this kind of experience?

 

[pannierstan]

Tell you what buy yourself a copy of the Corgi hand book and check it out for yourself.
If someone says the gas pipe needs rerunning from the meter that is possibly because the boiler he has quoted for requires a certain diameter of pipe. Either that or he actually wants the thing to get enough gas and the others don't care!
Regulations in the gas industry are constantly changing and there are those of us who want and do abide by the rules and those who don't care and will just plonk a boiler anywhere and get your money whatever it takes.
Alas these are generally but not always the cheapest quotes.
What you need to do is make your own mind up as no one else is going to be able to do it for you

 

[Alfredo]

Whatever the rules say about a flue location its the boiler manufacturers instructions which should be obeyed. There is (nearly) always a chart in the installation instructions telling you where you can or cannot terminate the flue. Obey that and you cannot go wrong.

For a combI i'd say a powerflush is highly desirable, but not 100% essential if the system has been well cleaned conventionally. For conventional boilers..its still not a bad idea to powerflush, if the rads are not performing well, but slightly less critical. Its the Plate to Plate heat exchanger in a combi that you are mainly trying to protect with a powerflush, but even so, if the rads are sludged up then any boiler will perform badly. Engineers who do not powerflush are often concerned about blowing holes in old radiators. This does happen, but in the long term they have done you a favour as if this happens the radiator was knackered anyway.

Gas pipe sizing...a good engineer sits down and does the calculation, depending on boiler size/load, distance from the meter, other appliances etc. Its not something we can guess over the internet. There are formulae to follow, its not rocket science, but it does take a little effort.

Hope this helps

Alfredo

 

[bster]

When you install a new boiler you have to stick to the current regs which will determine the flue position. Depending on when your current boiler was installed then the new flue (and thus the boiler) may have to go in a different position.
Special care is needed with condensers to prevent the flue becoming a nuisance to your neighbours as well as the statutory gas regulations concerning flue termination.

Power flush is the best way to clean an existing system, if it was all new pipework and rads then a mains flush would suffice.

I'm not Corgi (yet) - so dont really on anything i've said!!

 

[grayt]

Tell you what buy yourself a copy of the Corgi hand book and check it out for yourself.
If someone says the gas pipe needs rerunning from the meter that is possibly because the boiler he has quoted for requires a certain diameter of pipe. Either that or he actually wants the thing to get enough gas and the others don't care!
Regulations in the gas industry are constantly changing and there are those of us who want and do abide by the rules and those who don't care and will just plonk a boiler anywhere and get your money whatever it takes.
Alas these are generally but not always the cheapest quotes.
What you need to do is make your own mind up as no one else is going to be able to do it for you

Yes, I have checked it our for myself, and see that with a flue deflector kit it would make the distance between the flue and the boundary almost acceptable. We're talking 15mm over the regulation measurements. How fussy are Corgi? I really don't want to have my boiler moved somewhere else, yes it's costly, would take up space elsewhere (nursery cuboard or loft), and look unsightly somewhere else in the kitchen with a box covering the new pipe leads/electric lead.

I know certain boilers require a certain diameter gas lead in pipe, like I said above. I also said before, that the plumbers either ignore this, or oblige, etc. There's 3 ways of doing it amongst the ones I have talked to. WHAT'S THE POINT OF CORGI if over half of the plumbers that are registered don't abide by the regulations? They must think it won't be picked up. Says a lot for Corgi.

I realise I have to decide myself, but I was just asking if anyone else had the same problem, after all that's what forums are for aren't they? To discuss topics openly.

 

[grayt]

Gas pipe sizing...a good engineer sits down and does the calculation, depending on boiler size/load, distance from the meter, other appliances etc. Its not something we can guess over the internet. There are formulae to follow, its not rocket science, but it does take a little effort.

Hope this helps

Alfredo

Yeah, you'd expect that a guy would offer you a couple of quotes depending on whether you need a new pipe or not before the job so you are aware of possible unforseen costs, and as you say, they should do the calculations before they go ahead and do anything, but the buggers don't do this. This makes me wonder what are Corgi there for.

 

[grayt]

When you install a new boiler you have to stick to the current regs which will determine the flue position. Depending on when your current boiler was installed then the new flue (and thus the boiler) may have to go in a different position.
Special care is needed with condensers to prevent the flue becoming a nuisance to your neighbours as well as the statutory gas regulations concerning flue termination.

I'm not Corgi (yet) - so dont really on anything i've said!!

Yeah, I know all this as you can gather that's the reason why I have posted. It's not what I'm being told though from some Corgi Reg'd Plumbers. What can you say about that? That they should have their registration revoked?

 

[pampers]

Were all the quotes exactly the same boiler ?

different models and makes have differing gas requirments ,flue locations ,plume management kits can vary wildly between makes of the required minimum measurements.

 

[grayt]

Were all the quotes exactly the same boiler ?

different models and makes have differing gas requirments ,flue locations ,plume management kits can vary wildly between makes of the required minimum measurements.

No, they were not, sorry did I not make sense in the first post, thought I made that clear. Some won't fit anything other than what they prefer for whatever reasons.

Yeah, I realise that, like I said about a deflector for a start. The guys are engineers, you would have thought they could sort this 15mm over of the regulation prob with a kit or something.

And before anyone says, yes, I know say for instance a Bosch takes a 22mm pipe, and a Potterton will take a 15mm, but then there's the length of the lead from the meter to consider etc. It's not a combi btw.

 

[Alfredo]

The subtext of everything you are asking is "How do I get a gas installer I can trust to do the job properly", and its not that easy.

Recommendation is one of the best routes, length of time in business is some kind of guide. I always say go down to your local plumbing supplier and ask for a few names of people they think are OK. They will know the cowboys and the bad payers etc, and the people they have known for years who play straight with them. You are not asking for a 'recommendation' as such, just a few names of people who they know are OK.

Most people will try and do a decent job for you, but there are undeniably some you should avoid.

Corgi does its best..which is soemetimes wide of the mark

Alfredo

 

[grayt]

The subtext of everything you are asking is "How do I get a gas installer I can trust to do the job properly", and its not that easy.

Recommendation is one of the best routes, length of time in business is some kind of guide. I always say go down to your local plumbing supplier and ask for a few names of people they think are OK. They will know the cowboys and the bad payers etc, and the people they have known for years who play straight with them. You are not asking for a 'recommendation' as such, just a few names of people who they know are OK.

Most people will try and do a decent job for you, but there are undeniably some you should avoid.

Corgi does its best..which is soemetimes wide of the mark

Alfredo

It is, but if it means I can get away with not moving my boiler, then I will.

Yeah, that was the first thing I did before I also got guys in from looking on the Medway Fair Trader site, Corgi, W Bosch and the IPHE site. I have asked 2 local plumbing suppliers I know that have a good rep to recommend Corgi guys. None of the 4 that I was told were good by the plumbing suppliers said they would have to move the boiler