New spotlights: 12V or 240V?

[d000hg]

I have spotlights using both systems in my house and see no real difference between them. I am re-wiring a room with a low ceiling (cellar) and wondering which is preferable and why? 12V seems like one more component to purchase, and to fail - the bulbs seem similar price either way. I assume 12V are far safer (can you just grab the bare wire without risk?!)

I've also only just discovered the concept of LED strip lighting. Is it perhaps worth considering? For a 4x3m room with ceiling just a shade under 2m I wondered if that might be preferable all around the top of the wall instead of having 60W-equivalents blinding you as you walk underneath.

 

[flameport]

12V downlights and similar items are left overs from 30+ years ago when 240V voltage halogen lamps of that size were not available, 12V being the only option.
Later, 240V halogen lamps were available in the same physical size, but they did not provide as much light per watt as the 12V types, so the 12V ones were still preferred by many.
This was when 12V meant a huge transformer the size of a biscuit tin with individual wires from that to all of the light fittings in the room.

Later, individual transformers were a thing, and that is when the massive unreliability arrived with far more to go wrong, manufacturers of such transformers entered into a race to the bottom with both reduced price and reduced quality, then people started selling and installing the wrong kind of lamps (dichroics) which resulted in the fittings grossly overheating and failing even more often.

As halogen lamps are gone and it's LED or nothing now, get the 240V versions.

I assume 12V are far safer (can you just grab the bare wire without risk?!)

It is safer in that respect, but bare wires should not be exposed regardless of the voltage.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... 60W-equivalents blinding you as you walk underneath.

If you want spotlights then you also want that effect.

 

[ericmark]

As said 12 volt used G5.3 for both types of lamp, but with 230 volt GZ10 was dichroics and GU10 reflected the heat so you could not fit a GZ10 lamp into a GU10 holder, you could do it other way around. There was also a special that only took LED but never seemed to catch on.

Again as said with 12 volt there are so many options, and getting bulb and power supply matched is a nightmare, with DC smoothed, DC un-smoothed, AC 50 Hz and AC kHz, current regulated and voltage regulated, it is far better to use 230 volt where permitted.

As we went from quartz to LED the LED used some of the 16/8th inch diameter don't know why not called 2"? to take cooling fins, so the actual lit area is reduced, so they now more than ever need something to spread the light. Aimed at a white surface they do work, but aimed at a darkish floor and light is turned into heat, and lost.

So at around 3W the MR16 replacement works quite well, but over that unless something spreads the light it is lost, so you want something a bit larger, at 6 inches surface mount LED's work well, at 2 inches it is just too small.

Even with chandeliers and in my case 5 bulbs per fitting it still needs white ceiling and a lamp shade to defuse the light and the amount of light is not always as one first thinks, for example my main living room 20 x 10 foot approx started life with 2 x 100W tungsten, then two chandeliers so 6 x 60W tungsten, swapped for 11W CFL then went to 5 lights each so 10 x 8W, then moved to LED and 10 x 3W looked far brighter, however when it came to reading found needed 10 x 5W. Because 5W are too big for GU10 and so would need 3W to do same room with GU10 would need 20 x 3W, with 20 lamps it looks like a planetarium, clearly can be done and it will work, but 200W to 60W so around 1/3rd of power, however all charts says around 1/8th of power, which shows how much light is wasted.

 

[d000hg]

That's interesting I'd never considered you could have to much light per bulb to be useful.

I have some huge inset spotlight bulbs (like 4") elsewhere which I found led bulbs for but those are unusual.

Kind of tempted by strips - the kind on a big tape - having seen some today but they'd need to be behind something to diffuse I think

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have some huge inset spotlight bulbs (like 4") elsewhere which I found led bulbs for but those are unusual.

If you're going to successfully look for ceiling lights which actually work properly you're going to have to reset your scale of what is, or is not "huge".

 

[d000hg]

I came across batten LED lights which are pretty neat but mounted on the ceiling or wall-top would still be very bright and dazzling, which is not the vibe I want - well lit but warm and more ambient lighting. We discussed hiding battens behind a little recess to shine up at the ceiling, but then it might be hard to get the room lit, beyond mood-lighting.

I still like the idea of these rolls of strip-light tape but it would look really bad without some diffuser or hiding it.

Struggling to get a good vision for how to do lighting but I'm really not too keen on spots the more I think about it.

Maybe I need more than one thing? Recessed strips for ambient cosy lighting, and something more direct for when I need it bright (reading etc)

 

[StephenStephen]

I went for LED strip just below the ceiling, sitting horizontally on a small L shaped wooden profile below it - so the light is thrown up and across the ceiling but shielded from dazzling.
I think the LED diffusers are pretty good - I was too tightwalleted to pay for them when they cost pretty much the same as much again as the LED strips.
I found it really worthwhile going to a few light showrooms to have a look at different lights. The LED strips come in a great variety of warmth/cool and light level these days.

 

[d000hg]

I went for LED strip just below the ceiling, sitting horizontally on a small L shaped wooden profile below it - so the light is thrown up and across the ceiling but shielded from dazzling.
I think the LED diffusers are pretty good - I was too tightwalleted to pay for them when they cost pretty much the same as much again as the LED strips.
I found it really worthwhile going to a few light showrooms to have a look at different lights. The LED strips come in a great variety of warmth/cool and light level these days.

I'd love to see a photo, if that was possible

 

[StephenStephen]

I'd love to see a photo, if that was possible

Unfortunately it would take a much better photographer than me to produce anything that would make sense - I've tried taking a few but nothing is coming out that throws any light (excuse the pun)