New toilet waste lower than old one.

[ray99]

Hope this is not a stupid question but here goes:
Fitting a new toilet and the waste outlet on the new pan is at least 1" lower than the old one. How do I connect this to the existing plastic soil pipe coming through the wall?
Have looked at the Screwfix catalogue and they do an offset pan exit. Is that what I need.
Thanks.

 

[muggles]

No, you can't offset uphill, it'll block up

Your options are:

1) Buy a different toilet
2) Put the toilet you have on a plinth
3) Lower the soil pipe

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Offset might fit, but no guarantees the pan will clear properly when flushed, you're trying to defy gravity slightly.....

Probably a complete PITA, (but at least its a plastic stack!) I would lower the soil pipe slightly to accomodate the new pan outlet. If you've got a new W.C. complete, it'll be a smaller flush volume than an older cistern, and if the outlet is uphill you may find it'll struggle to remove the contents of the pan.....

 

[ray99]

Thanks for the quick replies.
Was wondering about how well it would flush with the height difference.
Not keen on the plinth idea as I think it will look messy.
House is only 10 years old so don't really want to start hacking away at the outer brickwork to lower the soil pipe.
Think I will go back to B&Q and see if I can get a more suitable toilet as that would be easier.

 

[Richard C]

Thanks for the quick replies.

You can’t flush poo uphill; not only will the pan continually block, the water level will be higher leading to unpleasant “splash back” . It will also contravene Building Regulations! You need to change the loo or do whatever is necessary to get at least the minimum fall in the connection.

 

[ray99]

Been thinking about this today and think the best long term solution will be to have a look in daylight tomorrrow and try to lower the soil pipe and if necessary the stack.

 

[Richard C]

Assuming it's plastic shortening the stack on the outside is the easiest option. If there is a joint & you can get it apart (unlikely) just cut a bit off; if not, cut a lump out below the loo connection & fit a new coupling.

 

[Hufty]

Can I suggest you save yourself some work and try the bodge - for the sake of an inch put in the offset and see if it works. If not try some of the other more labour intensive stuff.
If the water level is an inch higher in the pan so what?
"You can't flush poo uphill" but of course it does have to go uphill initially to get round the u-bend and this would just be a continuation.
"It contravenes Building Regulations." Does it, and in this case who cares?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

It wont work with an offset after the pan outlet. The pan is designed to allow the flush to 'sweep' the contents around the trap and into the outlet, where gravity (should....) take over.

Try the bodge by all means, but I suspect you'll need to keep a suitable plunger nearby for when it does block. Might have an advantage actually, the higher water level in the pan may mean you wont need a bidet!

 

[Richard C]

I see we’ve got a useful, sarcastic contributor on here giving me a half hearted poke in the eye; why not quote me By all means try the bodge it if you so wish, I'm just telling you what's right but, at the end of the day, you can do as you wish & I can promise you I won’t give a stuff let alone two

 

[Hufty]

The other bodge to consider is cutting the soil pipe back to the wall then using a short flexi connector. Might still be uphill, but more gradual and I would still expect the velocity of the flush to carry the contents over and out.

why not quote me

Didn't know how to do it - but do now!

Every now and again you come across a 3" lead pipe going slightly uphill through a 2ft wall but the toilet still flushes and clears, so I guess I'm a bit casual about correcting falls.

My final comment ever about soil pipes is that The Secretary of State for Drainage herself considers H1 to be met (and I paraphrase) "if it works" (Building Regs H Guidance page 6) which is why I thought worrying about the Regs was a bit harsh in this case.

 

[Richard C]

why not quote me

Didn't know how to do it - but do now!

You’ve learned something then.

Every now and again you come across a 3" lead pipe going slightly uphill through a 2ft wall but the toilet still flushes and clears, so I guess I'm a bit casual about correcting falls.

I also come across all sorts of things from yonder years but would never dream of replicating them now; they used to think it was OK to send little boys up chimneys at one time

which is why I thought worrying about the Regs was a bit harsh in this case.

Who said I was worried about the Regs. & I certainly wasn’t being harsh. All I do is pass on the knowledge I have & you’re equally entitled to pass on yours & give your personal opinions if you wish but it’s not necessary to jibe at me. It’s for the OP to decide if they wish act on the advice they are given, it’s their prerogative, not yours.

 

[ray99]

Thanks for all the replies.
Didn't want to take any chances as I am fitting a new suite, tiling and new flooring so had to get it right first time.
Chipped away some of the mortar around the soil pipe on the outside and managed to lower that a little which helped. Then changed my mind about using 2mm thick cushion vinyl and bought some Tile Loc flooring which is 8mm thick and fibreboard underlay which brings the toilet exactly level with the waste pipe. So I now have a nice connection and a decent drop.
Cheers.

 

[Richard C]

Great but please read the Tiling Forum Sticky & archive posts before you start with the tiling; it will help you & may prevent you from making some potentially expensive mistakes; come back if you need further advice.

 

[newbuildinstaller]

you can use the offset pan connectors uphill its only an inch we use them everyday in a block of council flats as the soil stacks are soild imovable cast iron stacks and are all 1" to high