New Zealand

[JohnD]

WTF does transubstantiation have to do with transgenders?

Both are examples of someone being led by the rules of their faith to believe and assert something they know to be untrue.

 

[JohnD]

Then you need to go back to that other forum (which you don't identify) and tell them not to insert words, and rearrange the Judge's comments to suit their own agenda.
Here are the actual comments of the judge:

Lord Justice Holroyd accepted the statistical evidence showed proportion of trans prisoners convicted of sexual offences was "substantially higher" than for non-transgender men and women prisoners
But he said this specific claim was a "misuse of the statistics, which... are so low in number, and so lacking in detail, that they are an unsafe basis for general conclusions".
​

You do know what "reported speech" is, don't you?

This however is a quotation.

"I can accept, at any rate for present purposes, that the unconditional introduction of a transgender woman into the general population of a women's prison carries a statistically greater risk of sexual assault upon non transgender prisoners than would be the case if a non-transgender woman was introduced."

You will find this quotation in

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-court-judgement-that-confirms-women-pay-for-trans-rights

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57692993

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/justice-swift-ministry-of-justice-b943832.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...sing-transgender-women-female-prisons-lawful/

No doubt copied from some press release or ruling.
​

 

[JohnD]

He never said what you claim he said.

Nonsense.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

I see you refuse to acknowledge the fact that there is such a thing as a "woman."

And it is not a man.

Not even a man who says the magic words "I am a woman."

https://massivesci.com/articles/sex-gender-intersex-transgender-identity-discrimination-title-ix/

Which side do you favour in the transubstantiation debate?

What is the science behind that theory?

 

[Captain Nemesis]

So by her prison sentence, and the refusal of the MoJ to acknowledge the assault occurred, proves her to be a dishonest person.

Such a train of reasoning could only be valid if nobody was ever wrongly convicted and no government department/minister/other related authority ever lied/covered up.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Such a train of reasoning could only be valid if nobody was ever wrongly convicted and no government department/minister/other related authority ever lied/covered up.

Accepted. But we don't know if she pleaded guilty to her crimes, and was sentenced accordingly.
I admit my comment was based on assumption that she was rightly convicted. In addition, one could assume that the MoJ would have brought charges against the culprit if they were convinced she had actually committed the assault in prison.
But, yes, I fully accept that the assignment of guilt, and therefore dishonesty, is based on the assumption that the victim is rightly in prison.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

You do know what "reported speech" is, don't you?

This however is a quotation.

"I can accept, at any rate for present purposes, that the unconditional introduction of a transgender woman into the general population of a women's prison carries a statistically greater risk of sexual assault upon non transgender prisoners than would be the case if a non-transgender woman was introduced."

You will find this quotation in
​

​

You admit then that you inserted the word 'male' into one of your supposed quotes.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

As I've said before you cannot respect one group's rights by trashing another groups.

When it comes to a person's rights, all prisoners rights not to be assaulted are risked when violent offenders are housed with non-violent or other violent offenders. That's the nature of prisons.

The prison system should be managing those sometimes competing rights as best as possible.
If the prison system fails to manage the competing rights adequately, blame the prison system, because it's not the fault of transgender people in general, especially those peaceful, non-violent transgenders who are not in prison and have not committed any offence.

 

[JohnD]

​

You admit then

nonsense.

 

[JohnD]

As I've said before you cannot respect one group's rights by trashing another groups.

for example, by putting violent male sex offenders and rapsists into women's prisons.

or allowing men who claim to be women to compete in women's sports.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

nonsense.

Well I wonder who did insert the word 'male' into the supposed quote:

So in reality, the Judge said today in a judgement regarding women's prisons and women's safety:

"I can accept, at any rate for present purposes, that the unconditional introduction of a transgender woman male into the general population of a women's prison carries a statistically greater risk of sexual assault upon non transgender prisoners women than would be the case if a non-transgender woman woman was introduced"

 

[JohnD]

You can't see the words "So in reality" then.

Nor

by "a transgender woman" he means

a male

 

[JohnD]

As I've said before you cannot respect one group's rights by trashing another groups.

"... The women inmates have had to accept that Stewart is being allowed to live as a woman, despite not having had surgery. That means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkward (sic).” (Keith McLeod, Daily Record, 14 February 2018)

Awkward, eh?

The judge said

" ...I also readily accept the proposition ... that some, and perhaps many, women prisoners may suffer fear and acute anxiety if required to share prison accommodation and facilities with a transgender women who has male genitalia, and that their fear and anxiety may be increased if that transgender woman has been convicted of sexual or violent offences against women."

May?

 

[JohnD]

And yes, the term "transgender woman" is being used to describe a "man."

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

for example, by putting violent male sex offenders and rapsists into women's prisons.

As I understand it, the transgender involved was a violent sex offender prior to her transitioning, and afterwards.
She had a transgender certificate, which would indicate that the violent sex offences she committed and was currently in prison for, were committed after her transition.
Which suggests that she is an habitual sex offender, and therefore highly likely to re-offend. Yet the prison system were unable to manage her adequately.

or allowing men who claim to be women to compete in women's sports.

We've debated this for pages and pages, and you failed to provide a convincing argument, any evidence, or any eminent opinion to support your argument then. So because a violent sex offender, re-offended, please don't transpose that issue onto the sports issue.
You are being deceitful and devious by using the words 'men who claim to be women'. We cleared that one up long ago.
The athlete in question was medically and scientifically examined and judged to be a woman.