Newish house, no instruction!

[Simonedwardscamera]

Good evening all,

We've recently moved into our house which is fitted with a Baxi Bermuda Inset 2 50/4E back boiler.

In the airing cupboard we have the normal programmer type thing and a potterton thermostat with a sensor on the end of a flying lead.

We've got our local RGI coming to service it on Thursday because we have some queries but as we've not used him before, I'd like to get my head around how the system works before he comes.

One of the reasons for him coming is that it probably needs a service. Sometimes it starts first time, other times it doesn't and locks out requiring us to turn the knob to off and reboot it. Other times it will run for a minute or three then stop, go off for a minute then light again. Is that normal?

The most annoying thing is when it "clicks" as if it were lighting, lights for a second or two then goes out and starts again. This seems to happen mostly during the times that the HW is set to on. We run he CH constantly, regulating with the room stat and the HW is set to come on twice a day.

Going back to the airing cupboard, there is a motorised valve that seems to have one in, two out. Also the potterton thermostat is lying loose in the cupboard. Any idea where it should be attached or what temp it should be at? I presumed it was something to do with turning the boiler off when the HW reaches a set temp. Could that be why the boiler clicks on and off without lighting properly? I've " tested" it by turning the stat down to 40 and holding it against a boiling mug of water which made the stat "reached" light come on so that's working but why it's not attached to anything is the mystery!

Finally, should we regularly vacuum out the area around the front of the boiler? It seems to be a good collector of dust but I don't want to do anything that might cause problems!

Thanks everyone for any ideas..

 

[simond]

If the boiler isn't working properly, it isn't a 'service', it's a 'repair'.

 

[warmadmax]

ah an electronic baxi bermuda,
mine's a manual one, no PCB to go wrong.

Don't know about the constant starting issues, your RGI should be able to sort, (could only hazard a guess as i'm not a plumber / RGI)


What is the orange dial set to on the boiler normally?
that's the boilers internal thermostat, you could try up or down a notch from usual if it's constantly firing on and off, your room stat could be on the borderline and calling for heat then being satisfied before the boiler has chance to fire up.

on the airing cupboard, you've either a mid position valve or a diverter,
the chaps would be able to tell you which from either a picture or make / model number off the plastic/metal head unit.

Your potterton stat in the airing cupboard i'd imagine is the cylinder stat, it should be attached to a bare patch on your hot water cylinder, about a 1/3rd of the way up, normally held on by elasticated wire (bit like curtain wire) holds it tight to it.
That one should be set to about 60c to "kill" any legionella

 

[GasSafeTony]

If the boiler isn't working properly, it isn't a 'service', it's a 'repair'.

I love that one customers try and pull. And the other one, "it was working ok before".

 

[Dan Robinson]

Along with, "can you just do a quick bodge. We are moving in a couple of weeks."

Hey ho.

 

[Simonedwardscamera]

Thanks for those.

Simon, I'm not sure whether it's working properly or not, hence service first and let the RGI work out whats needed or are you advocating having him buy in a load of stuff we might not need and fit it speculatively? Having worked for Rogue Traders and Watchdog I've met plenty of "trained" technicians who work like that...

Warmadmax, thanks for your help. The boiler stat is normally at the 6 o'clock position as per some online instructions I found. I will turn it up a bit as the room stat is generally set about the same (luckily previous occupants owned a uPVC company so we are glazed to the max).

I will look more closely at the valve, and find a way of attaching the sensor. Presumably the person who installed the cylinder decided it didn't need the sensor securing to it! Obviously one of those "trained" professionals!

I will report back to add to the knowledge base.

 

[Simonedwardscamera]

Sadly chaps that attitude pervades all industries including my own, which is why when we booked the RGI we made it quite clear that we had no history with the boiler and what it was doing that we were confused by. Nonetheless it is a service first and foremost.

I charge accordingly for my experience and have no qualms paying the same with stuff like this. Equally I do not expect my clients to take me for a ride and do not tolerate being treated like an idiot by people I employ to undertake work for me.

 

[Jordon]

You sound like a charm to work for, anyway I think it only fair you do point out the niggles to the rgi as he may not have any fault when he is there. Moving on no it is not normal to switch on and off or infact need constant resetting, could be flame prob ie rectification fault, or possible over heat fault check the header for water pump running, the hot water stat I set at 50 deg c and attach near center of the flow and return connection on the cylinder, reason for not being connected prob new cylinder so may have been over looked? Yes you can Hoover around the base but dont go sticking it behind the fire.

 

[GasSafeTony]

Sadly chaps that attitude pervades all industries including my own, which is why when we booked the RGI we made it quite clear that we had no history with the boiler and what it was doing that we were confused by. Nonetheless it is a service first and foremost.

I charge accordingly for my experience and have no qualms paying the same with stuff like this. Equally I do not expect my clients to take me for a ride and do not tolerate being treated like an idiot by people I employ to undertake work for me.

If you don't get a good service engineer, with respect, you're goin to pay for an engineer to go to a fault paging chart. Then just fail to find the fault, phone the manufacturers CS team to be told to test for continuity at certain points on the pcb before he or she can diagnose the problem.

 

[GasSafeTony]

It sounds like a dirty pilot nozzle, a good clean during a service could possibly sort the problem out, if not it may need replacing. If the pilot isn't making good contact with the Thermocouple it will cut the gas supply off.

 

[Simonedwardscamera]

Thanks Jordon, Your advice is greatly appreciated. I have given the RGI as much detail as poss prior to his visit, but we are prepared for this costing a bit, maybe taking more than a couple of visits and that's fine because it's not some thing I can do myself so I'm happy to pay the price. My comment about the tank would make more sense if you saw some of the other "work" we have uncovered! Strangely enough my clients like me and I've yet to have a trade disagree when we have similar conversations about being fair and open. Obviously I must have met people who think like me up until now!

Tony, the guy we've chosen is well known locally and came recommended, which is always the best way I think. Sadly that whole attitude of just looking at the flow chart and changing parts seems to be how it is these days isn't it. Interestingly we rang another half dozen or so RGI's as we were anticipating long lead times but our chosen man was the only one who rang back within 24 hours.

 

[Simonedwardscamera]

Just FYI,

The evening before the appointment, I succesfully managed to rupture a microbore pipe leading to our hall rad whilst trying to lift it enough to get something from behind it. Idiot! Carpet wrecked and the excess is more than it would cost to replace.

So...instead of servicing the boiler the RGI fixed that.

However, during this he re-attached the tank stat as it should be and set the temp as he would normally, then set the temp on the boiler stat as he would expect it to be.

And since then the boiler has behaved impeccably.

The rest of the system however has become a nightmare! I've done an awful lot of bleeding, reading and balancing and still its not right! Next job is to replace either the motor or actuator in the MA1 as the RGI suggested that it was on its last legs.

I was surprised how little movement there is in the valve block of the MA1 and having checked on this forum I see it is only 10-15 degrees which seems quite amazing really.

A few questions for our esteemed membership.

Powerflush: I have heard this can expose weaknesses in the system (ours is microbore and at least 10 years old). Is this true? How much should I expect to pay for having it done. It will wait til the summer anyway because I will get a couple of other jobs done while it is drained down.

Wireless controllers: Our programmer and gubbins is in a really awkward place to get to. Can anyone recommend a wireless system?

General Settings: We tend to leave the CH on all year and control it by the room stat. For the sake of "exercising" the MA1, would it make sense to program the CH to go off once a day or does it not really matter.

Pump: How can I tell what speed the pump should be set to? Historically its always been on "1".

As ever, thanks for your help.

 

[swbjackson]

I'm very wary of power flushing micro bore as the powerflush process can dislodge large particles that travel into the manifolds and block the micro bore pipe. I'm more inclined to use a thorough chemical flush on microbore and remove and manually flush any problem rads.

The motorised valve will actuate when the room stat call calls for heat so need to use any other regime.

The correct way of checking a pump setting is to calculate the resistance of the index circuit. When the pump is in it's generally easiest to set the pump at the lowest setting which enable the system to work properly.

 

[Simonedwardscamera]

Thanks Mike,

I did wonder about powerflushing microbore and your comment has made my mind up! Ive been looking at Sentinel X400 and might even go for their Rapid Dose product as it means I dont have to drain down first apparently.

I have re-set the pump to 1 based on your recommendation.

Cheers.

 

[Simonedwardscamera]

Resolution finally came in the form of a proper service by the RGI.

Apparently it would seem that the last RGI to "service" it simply did not do it properly.

Obviously that's just one mans opinion but since being serviced it seems to be working perfectly.