D
dextrous
I'm having a moment of deja vu - or have the mods removed bits?
NHS spending cuts.
- Thread starter joe-90
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D
dextrous
Do I detect just a modicom of bad blood here?
Although I wouldn't have chosen Your descriptions Joe......
I have to say I agree with the principle.....
(From bitter experience of a family member post stroke.)
A living will is a good start in my opinion .......But...... not quite far enough yet.
I have to say I agree with the principle.....
(From bitter experience of a family member post stroke.)
A living will is a good start in my opinion .......But...... not quite far enough yet.
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I can see the point behind your reasoning joe but who gives us the right to say because they 'no longer contribute to society' then they should die?
Most people who reach 60/65 'stop' contributing to our society because they retire, should we bump them off as well?
As for someone who dribbles, sits there all day and babbles away to thin air, who knows what is actually going through their minds, what their thoughts are etc. They may have spent 50 years working hard, contributing to this society then suddenly they have a stroke and lose most of their faculties. But inside their mind they are young again, living their life as though they were teenagers again, falling in love with the partner they spent all their life with and raising their children again.
Do we have the right to deny them this happiness? I don't believe we do.
Someone mentioned something about those who haven't contributed shouldn't get free treatment. I totally agree. Anyone who has never worked since leaving shool should have to pay, even if only a token amount, and anyone coming from abroad should have to take out insurance to cover their costs.
Most people who reach 60/65 'stop' contributing to our society because they retire, should we bump them off as well?
As for someone who dribbles, sits there all day and babbles away to thin air, who knows what is actually going through their minds, what their thoughts are etc. They may have spent 50 years working hard, contributing to this society then suddenly they have a stroke and lose most of their faculties. But inside their mind they are young again, living their life as though they were teenagers again, falling in love with the partner they spent all their life with and raising their children again.
Do we have the right to deny them this happiness? I don't believe we do.
Someone mentioned something about those who haven't contributed shouldn't get free treatment. I totally agree. Anyone who has never worked since leaving shool should have to pay, even if only a token amount, and anyone coming from abroad should have to take out insurance to cover their costs.
Joe, i am your side (again), told my family, if for some reason i'm not right, accident/ demtia sp. get rid of me, fuuk living like that, your times up, then it's up.
you'd better watch your back then
V
vinty
Contrary to popular belief the UK spends a lot less on health than a lot of other countries, The americans spend twice as much on health as the UK does, it also provides employment for a lot of people.
Even if a lot money was saved by letting the old die who would benefit?the Government would just use the money to buy better weapons to kill off even more people.
Even if a lot money was saved by letting the old die who would benefit?the Government would just use the money to buy better weapons to kill off even more people.
I don't often find myself in agreement with Josef but I too have no desire to spend a decade as a care home inmate, pi55ing my pants and praying to die in my sleep.
We should have the right to end our lives as and when we choose ... With the right safeguards of course.
The law as it stands is totally absurd.
MW
We should have the right to end our lives as and when we choose ... With the right safeguards of course.
The law as it stands is totally absurd.
MW
V
vinty
The law as it stands isn't designed to prevent the terminally ill killing themselves, it is there to protect the old and vulnerable from being abused by others.
Hi Joe
Don`t post here very often (obvious really due to my low post count) but do spend a lot of time lurking around the site and have read many of your previous topics which do seem to agitate quite a few members. I`ve never had a problem with any of your views/opinions but this time I really would like to know exactly what your thoughts are regarding the elderly.
Before you do though can I just explain my family circumstances at present. My mother suffers from alzheimers and is now living in a local care home. She remembers nothing of the previous day but will happily chatter away about what happened 10,20,30 or even 50yrs ago. She will tell me what a wonderful day she had in Fleetwood or Southport last weekend even though she hasn`t been there. She`ll tell me what a great evening she had with her friends in a pub last weekend when the truth is she hasn`t been anywhere.
I`ll admit that not every day is a good day,sometimes she refuses to leave her room, won`t take her medication, refuses to see a dentist (but can`t explain why), has occasional problems with incontinence and refuses to eat or speak to anyone. Worst of all some days she refuses to believe that my father is her husband as in my mum`s world she is back in the 1950`s and can`t understand why her "supposed" husband is so old (80) when she believes she is only in her 30`s. So mum will tell my dad that he`s an imposter and her real husband is dead-this obviously cuts my dad to the core.
Mums care costs are met by the NHS at approx £500 per week and at the age of 75 with no serious illness should have a good few years left in her so it is going to cost the taxpayer a small fortune over her life-span
Then there`s my dad- 80yrs old, recently overcome pneumonia, suffers from osteoporosis,haiatus hernia and other gastric problems. Has been for more scans,x-rays and tests in the last 3 months than in the rest of his life.
So all in all neither of my parents will be of any benefit to society again and will only cost the NHS more and more.
What I need to know Joe is are you suggesting that both of my parents should be "exterminated" to save everyone a few quid a week? Or next time one of them gets ill medical assistance shoul be refused?
Or are you suggesting that people should be allowed to choose when they die?
Or are you just playing devils advocate?
Don`t post here very often (obvious really due to my low post count) but do spend a lot of time lurking around the site and have read many of your previous topics which do seem to agitate quite a few members. I`ve never had a problem with any of your views/opinions but this time I really would like to know exactly what your thoughts are regarding the elderly.
Before you do though can I just explain my family circumstances at present. My mother suffers from alzheimers and is now living in a local care home. She remembers nothing of the previous day but will happily chatter away about what happened 10,20,30 or even 50yrs ago. She will tell me what a wonderful day she had in Fleetwood or Southport last weekend even though she hasn`t been there. She`ll tell me what a great evening she had with her friends in a pub last weekend when the truth is she hasn`t been anywhere.
I`ll admit that not every day is a good day,sometimes she refuses to leave her room, won`t take her medication, refuses to see a dentist (but can`t explain why), has occasional problems with incontinence and refuses to eat or speak to anyone. Worst of all some days she refuses to believe that my father is her husband as in my mum`s world she is back in the 1950`s and can`t understand why her "supposed" husband is so old (80) when she believes she is only in her 30`s. So mum will tell my dad that he`s an imposter and her real husband is dead-this obviously cuts my dad to the core.
Mums care costs are met by the NHS at approx £500 per week and at the age of 75 with no serious illness should have a good few years left in her so it is going to cost the taxpayer a small fortune over her life-span
Then there`s my dad- 80yrs old, recently overcome pneumonia, suffers from osteoporosis,haiatus hernia and other gastric problems. Has been for more scans,x-rays and tests in the last 3 months than in the rest of his life.
So all in all neither of my parents will be of any benefit to society again and will only cost the NHS more and more.
What I need to know Joe is are you suggesting that both of my parents should be "exterminated" to save everyone a few quid a week? Or next time one of them gets ill medical assistance shoul be refused?
Or are you suggesting that people should be allowed to choose when they die?
Or are you just playing devils advocate?
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That's a good post. It's an interesting insight into dementia (I've never had that experience as it doesn't run in our family). However, the problem is that the sums just don't add up. I'm one of the baby-boomers and there will be millions of us retiring and becoming dependent on the state for pensions and health care over the next 10 years.
Who's going to pay? Will you be happy to pay double income tax. Council Tax or VAT? I doubt it somehow. I guess that we wil;l have to go back to accepting that people get old and die.
The age pension in Australia has been means tested for 20 years - and that's what MUST happen here.
I own more than one property so what will happen is that if I live to a ripe old age then when I die the property will go to the state. Whether you own one house or ten - they will all go to the state. You won't be able to pass it on to your kids or give it away to them whilst you are still alive.
The poor (benefit claimants) will pay nothing in death just as they've paid nothing in life.
Something has to change - and those that have the money will pay for those that live off the state.
Year on year people live longer and have more pension payments and health care - how are you going to pay for it? That's the issue.
Who's going to pay? Will you be happy to pay double income tax. Council Tax or VAT? I doubt it somehow. I guess that we wil;l have to go back to accepting that people get old and die.
The age pension in Australia has been means tested for 20 years - and that's what MUST happen here.
I own more than one property so what will happen is that if I live to a ripe old age then when I die the property will go to the state. Whether you own one house or ten - they will all go to the state. You won't be able to pass it on to your kids or give it away to them whilst you are still alive.
The poor (benefit claimants) will pay nothing in death just as they've paid nothing in life.
Something has to change - and those that have the money will pay for those that live off the state.
Year on year people live longer and have more pension payments and health care - how are you going to pay for it? That's the issue.
Joe you started this argument by stating that the NHS should get rid of management staff and as Prenticeboy chipped in 'pen pushers'
How many pen pushers and admin staff will the NHS have to employ in order to ensure that your means tested utopia runs smoothly?
Jobcentre Plus employs around 75,000 staff to deal with approx 2.4 million unemployed.
Means testing the 60 million plus population? Do the sums, do you really want to be paying for that?
And by turning certain groups of people down for healthcare will mean the streets will be littered with the sick, disabled and mentally ill. It'll be like Croydon but on a national scale!!!
How many pen pushers and admin staff will the NHS have to employ in order to ensure that your means tested utopia runs smoothly?
Jobcentre Plus employs around 75,000 staff to deal with approx 2.4 million unemployed.
Means testing the 60 million plus population? Do the sums, do you really want to be paying for that?
And by turning certain groups of people down for healthcare will mean the streets will be littered with the sick, disabled and mentally ill. It'll be like Croydon but on a national scale!!!
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Are you saying that there are over 60 million people collecting the old age pension? I never realised that.
Anyway it works overseas so it should also work here.
The UK is going bust at an alarming rate.
Already the total amount of income tax paid by British workers doesn't even cover the welfare bill. So I ask you again - where's the money coming from?
Joe-90, I believe you have dodged the man's question. Which is it to be?
Might I suggest that instead of "thanking" phildigger, maybe you should be apologising?
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