NICEIC and Co...

[dingbat]

I know there are regular debates on here, but I just wondered if anybody had views on this:

I just went to quote for some rewiring. The existing installation has seven circuits, springing from 5 single Wylex fuseboxes, plus a twin. ALL circuits are radial and there is no equipotential bonding although each fusebox has its own connection to the supply sheathing (TN-S) Looks lovely.

The owner only really wanted 8 extra double sockets, a cooker circuit and a CU, but as the three-bed house has only 5 doubles to start with, I told him he was way behind the times and pointed him at table 8B in the On Site Guide. His single lighting circuit is also pretty old. Anyway, given the age and inadequacy of the whole thing I said I would be unhappy to simply supply a new CU, connect the old circuits to it and shove in a few more sockets and that it would make sense (as the boards would be up and all that) to go for a comprehensive rewire, do all the bonding, etc...

That's when he told me he wanted to rent to students and the local authority insisted on a controlled NICEIC ticket. (B*gg*r!) But here's the thing. I took the time to explain what I thought was best and why, whereas the NICEIC sparky he'd seen earlier in the day had simply shrugged and given him a price for eight new double sockets, a cooker circuit and a CU. Now I would like to believe that he will undertake a comprehensive test of the whole installation and negotiate to do any extra work necessary (such as the equipotential bonding) but what if he just sticks to the work agreed? This isn't sour grapes because I won't get the job - I'm pretty busy right now anyway - but I'm not sure the customer is getting what the NICEIC seeks to provide, especially as he told me he felt far more confident in my advice than that given by the registered fella.

So, any comments?

 

[ed998]

funny isn`t it - NICEIC to most people means you`ll be getting an expert to do the work for you, thats the way it appears to be marketed to the public

There isn`t much you can say except to tell the chap he wants a full t+i before any work is carried out - if the sparky is a good one then the defects will come to light via the test sheet. Also if he does install anything whatsoever he is obliged as a registered NICEIC contractor to issue certificates stating that the installation complies - if he doesn`t do this then i`m sure a phonecall to the NICEIC with the reg number of the company would be quite interesting........

HTH

Ed

 

[il78]

Just because of the NIC logo doesn’t mean you getting expert, I work with about 30 other sparks and would consider a few of them as below average when it comes to rewiring / works within a house (don’t take me the wrong way, I’m no super spark). It’s the company that’s NIC registered, not the spark….

The spark should of made the customer aware of the upgrading of earthing etc when replacing the distribution board, but this could price you out of the job, and I believe in making money not losing it (and when you got 30 other sparks, you need a lot of work). Granted this should not affect the quality of work to customers, I personally believe that if you have made your best efforts to make the customer aware of other defects within the installation, replacing the board and issuing a certificate for the board only, should be satisfactory, unfortunately this is not the case and this is where my grievance lies with the NIC…Lets be honest the customer will get it done any-hoos, why not it be you…

(Just for the record, I would have insisted that they get a Periodic Inspection carried out and most student accommodators would ask first)

 

[dingbat]

Just because of the NIC logo doesn’t mean you getting expert... It’s the company that’s NIC registered, not the spark…

I realise that, although by next year I intend to be registered myself, as a sole trader.

The spark should of(sic) made the customer aware of the upgrading of earthing etc when replacing the distribution board, but this could price you out of the job, and I believe in making money not losing it...
Lets be honest the customer will get it done any-hoos, why not it be you…

Agreed, but I always take the time to explain what needs doing and why. Customers generally respond well to being treated as intelligent adults and I often win work with higher quotes simply because I bothered to explain.

Still, it does seem a waste of time and money to have to test and issue a certificate for changing a lightswitch, which the NIC seem to want you to do!

 

[securespark]

Yes, Dingbat, I do a lot of explaining too! It doesn't always win the work, but mostly it does the trick. My problem is explaining two things: how much work is involved, and the difference between good work and bad.

All the customer does is switch the switch and the light comes on. They don't seem to appreciate what's involved, or indeed, whether it's safe. Even my parents-in-law who are by no means lacking in intelligence or common sense were surprised I had to lift the landing floor to fit wall lights in the hall!!

See my posting about ventilation for a story where I failed to convince a customer about the need for work to be done to upgrade his shower circuit. It's grim reading!

 

[il78]

Still, it does seem a waste of time and money to have to test and issue a certificate for changing a lightswitch, which the NIC seem to want you to do!

Sickening......

I manage the Inspection & Tesing departmemt for the company I work for and the local NIC inspector insisted on issuing Minor Works for everything....the trouble is we have about 30 sparks, each requiring a test kit.....Avo LCB2000 Series £350 (iro) Avo Megger IR tester £170 (iro) = £15600 just on test equipment, how do ya' work that into changing a socket face......and thats without any going AWOL or FUBAR......

 

[Big_Spark]

You can still do the work for him, regardless of what the local council say. All you need to do is tell him that an NICEIC registered contractor will be reqired to do a full inspect and test upon completion and issue the certificate.

Is is often a common misconception that it must be an NIC contractor that does the work, all they need do is certify it.

Personally I would ban the NIC, bunch of self serving Gits who have done for electrical safety what Hitler did for International relations!

 

[il78]

The NIC contractor could only issue a periodic report not a certificate and would also require the installer to issue their own electrical installation certificate if NIC required.....

 

[Big_Spark]

The NIC contractor could only issue a periodic report not a certificate and would also require the installer to issue their own electrical installation certificate if NIC required.....

Well I was assuming that the contractor doing the work would issue the actual completion certificate as per BS7671.

Generally I find that most local authorities will accept BS7671 test certificates so long as it from a registered compnay and has been completed correctly as per the Regs.

 

[il78]

More & more people are asking for NIC, only an recent observation....

 

[Big_Spark]

More & more people are asking for NIC, only an recent observation....

I agree, this is yet another example of how an organisation can assume control and responsibility for something in this country by slick saleman preaching the gospel according to self interest.

What this country needs is a state run body advised by the industry, the IEE and employing it's own engineers.

This body could then govern the industry and any electrician or engineer found to be in material breech of safety rules could be sanctioned, with the ultimate being removal of liscense to trade or operate as an electrician/engineer.

In principle the NICEIC have a good idea, but the implementation and self serving destroy this.

I have always resisted taking the company into the NICEIC, however the way things are going I have no choice but to suffer their extortion. As a balance to this I intend to take the compnay into the ECA at the same time.

 

[il78]

Oh yes, you will join the dark side.........

 

[Big_Spark]

Oh yes, you will join the dark side.........

Oh yes Obi One, the Dark side has me sure enough