1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

NICEIC electrician produces certificate years after job

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by taz777, 20 Mar 2011.

  1. Lectrician

    Lectrician

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2004
    Messages:
    8,490
    Thanks Received:
    402
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Photos.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. mikhailfaradayski

    mikhailfaradayski

    Joined:
    21 Jul 2009
    Messages:
    1,677
    Thanks Received:
    86
    Location:
    Derby
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    yes please, they will help us understand exactly what you have.

    Also, a scan of the cert he has given you would help, particularly detailing the bit that says 'description and extent of the installation' also, there may be more than one date on the cert, can we see them all please?
    (please remember to blank out his details, you don't want to subject the guy to a public kangaroo court, he may have done nothing wrong!)

    Do you know exactly when he did the work? was it 4 years or 5 years or 6 years? -This may have some bearing on whether the other sparks are correct or not about notification requirements.

    Do you realize that there was a change to the regulations in 2008. What may not be compliant today, may not have been an issue when the work was carried out!

    photos please :cool:
     
  4. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2003
    Messages:
    69,782
    Thanks Received:
    2,858
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    And oh look - you've now got a dodgy EIC. Which you knew you would get if you asked for one.

    Maybe you should take this up with your solicitor, and ask him why he accepted a new EIC for work that was 4 years old.

    Or maybe you should give the person who took responsibility for deciding that a new EIC for work done 4 years ago was OK a good talking to.

    But anyway. In early Feb, when you were planning to buy this house, you asked
    so you were thinking you might be doing that in any event.

    Then last week you asked again: http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=267444

    Are you sure that this isn't just a case of you finding out what it's really going to cost to do the rewire you always planned and looking for a way to defray that cost?
     
  5. joinerjohn

    joinerjohn

    Joined:
    28 Nov 2009
    Messages:
    6,145
    Thanks Received:
    201
    Location:
    Derby
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I fail to see how anyone could provide a certificate stating this installation meets current regulations, when the work was done 4-5 yrs ago. Did he come round and do a PIR before issuing the certificate? The installation may well have been done to the 16th edition, but 4-5 years ago the 17th hadn't been brought out.
     
  6. ericmark

    ericmark

    Joined:
    27 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    18,245
    Thanks Received:
    1,701
    Location:
    Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    There are important dates
    2001 BS7671:2001 came in and many rules changed.
    2004 Part P was born.
    2008 BS7671:2008 came in again many rules changed.

    It was permitted when BS7671:2008 came in to continue to use BS7671:2001 for all work already planned so date work is planned is important.

    The same with Part P any work planned before 2004 does not need Part P completion certificates.

    Note not date completed but date work was planned.

    If the work was planned after 2004 the LABC will have copies of the installation certificate and completion certificate issued. Under Part P the scheme provider or local authority are responsible for safety depending on route taken so you should contact scheme provider.

    Because of Part P I would assume the date on the certificate is the date duplicate was requested as they would have needed to have submitted the original to LABC vie scheme provider when job was completed.

    I had some issues with some work done for me and because the guy had suffered a heart attack he had been unable to return to correct them. I was advised by company solicitors that time was very important and if just after the work was completed some one was injured them he would be responsible, however once a year had lapsed then the responsibility would be mine. With a sliding scale between two dates. OK this was commercial but 5 years to discover the work was not up to standard I would not expect you could in a court of law do anything.

    Before new occupants move into a house a periodic inspection report should be completed. This is the only guy you have any redress to. He should have listed all faults. I know my daughter waved the requirement before moving in so in her case any faults are hers to correct. My sister insisted and got full report before the deal was made so in her case any faults he missed she can hold him responsible for. Again time must be considered and since domestic properties are not tested as often as commercial then you may have over the year. But once a fault is noted then you must do something.
     
  7. dingbat

    dingbat

    Joined:
    29 Sep 2003
    Messages:
    2,846
    Thanks Received:
    68
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    But did not come into force until 2005.

    No, they won't.
     
  8. mbga9pgf

    mbga9pgf

    Joined:
    5 Jun 2010
    Messages:
    373
    Thanks Received:
    10
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Did he provide test paperwork including cable rating, R1+R2 etc when the work was done?

    Did he Notify?

    Did he provide a retrospective test certificate with fraudulent test values on it? I would suggest that if he provided a certificate a week ago for testing he did 5 years ago, and hasnt retested, that would be pretty unprofessional.
     
  9. taz777

    taz777

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Thanks Received:
    6
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    A quick update on this.

    I contacted the NICEIC and the electrical contractor in question is a registered member of the NICEIC.

    However, he was supposed to submit a copy of the certificate he issued in mid-Feb to the NICEIC within 7 days but has not done so.

    Another dodgy sparky, i'm afraid.

    The NICEIC didn't seem that bothered whether or not he should submit certificates to them and they suggested I fill in a complaints form.

    To be honest I can't be bothered to do that as the hassle isn't worth it. And trying to find a decent sparky is proving extremely difficult at the moment. I've had landscape gardeners, glaziers, carpenters, painters and decorators, pond specialists, central heating companies and roofers all provide detailed quotes. Of the seven electrical contractors that have surveyed my property only two have provided a quote. There was a difference of £2K for exactly the same work between those two quotes. The others couldn't be bothered even after spending an hour at my property to spec the work. One even decided to flick the switch on both fuse boxes in the midst of a brand new washing machine being run for the first time and TV, phone and internet media equipment being installed!
     
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. Spark123

    Spark123

    Joined:
    2 Jun 2005
    Messages:
    14,841
    Thanks Received:
    474
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    If you know a sparky is coming around to look at the installation then why set your brand new washing machine going? :LOL:
     
  12. taz777

    taz777

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Thanks Received:
    6
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Because I thought a sparky wouldn't start playing with the on/off on both fuses boxes just for the fun of it - it was only when the electrics to the entire house went out several times within the space of a few seconds did I realise what was going on.

    I did point out to him that three other contractors were in the house and that the washing machine was being tested by one of them and Virgin media were setting up my TV, phone line and internet (the set-top box was being updated in the middle of him flicking the switches!).

    Even with my basic P=IV level of electrical knowledge, I know that you don't start playing with fuse boxes when you're in someone's house unless you're actually troubleshooting or testing the electronics (he was doing neither).

    As for the NICEIC - I came away with the opinion that it's just a body to promote electricians and has no loyalty to consumers - it looks after its paid-up sparkies even if they bend the rules or flout them altogether.
     
  13. 1john

    1john

    Joined:
    3 Oct 2009
    Messages:
    3,351
    Thanks Received:
    344
    Location:
    West Glamorgan
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Your conclusion on the NICEIC is absolutly stupid, they have requested that you fill in a complaints form in order to help you but you claim it's too much trouble. What were you expecting them to do, just send you some free cash for phoning them?? This bad sparky (if indeed he is) can continue trading if you dont do anything about it :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  14. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2003
    Messages:
    69,782
    Thanks Received:
    2,858
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I agree about the form and pursuing the complaint, but his conclusion about where the balance of NICEIC's interests lie is not stupid.

    But as the concept of "stupid" has been raised:
    Somebody was stupid enough to accept that an EIC dated 2011 could be relied on as certification for work done in 2006-7.

    Who was that stupid person, and is he receiving a severe kicking for his stupidity, and being told, with the threat of legal action, that he will have to compensate the purchaser of the property for losses arising out of his stupidity?
     
  15. 1john

    1john

    Joined:
    3 Oct 2009
    Messages:
    3,351
    Thanks Received:
    344
    Location:
    West Glamorgan
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Jusy stupid to moan about something and then not fill out a bloody form. If all the bad sparky in ANY scheme dont get reported then where would we be? Someone has to do something, not just complain about it.

    Accepting an EIC for work 5 years old is a little strange, complaining about work done 5 years ago not complying with regs that changed less than 3 years ago is also a little strange too.
     
  16. taz777

    taz777

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Thanks Received:
    6
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Another update to this thread. I've managed to speak to the electical contractor in question in some detail. It looks like one of the electricians working for the electrical contractor was a 'mate' of the previous owner of the house and produced the certificate on demand as my solicitors were asking the seller's solicitors for a certificate for the new electrical work.

    The work was done around 10 months ago and not 4-5 years ago as I had been previously advised by the sellers.

    It would appear that the certificate is dodgy as it has been produced far too late after the work was done and a copy has not been sent to the NICEIC.

    I will be asking new electrical contractors to rip out all of the new electrical wiring and redo the entire property from scratch.

    So in summary, my original question has been answered: a certificate must be issued within 28 days of electrical work being completed and NICEIC members must submit a copy of that certificate to the NICEIC within 7 days of the certificate being issued.

    That was all that I wanted to know in this thread.
     
  17. dingbat

    dingbat

    Joined:
    29 Sep 2003
    Messages:
    2,846
    Thanks Received:
    68
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    And yet, there isn't - and never has never has been - a requirement for contractors to forward copies of certificates to the NICEIC. :cry:
     
Loading...

Share This Page