NICEIC electrician did not provide Installation Certificate.

[Hyper88]

I have had a consumer changed by a NICEIC certified engineer. (yes, I checked he web site). He did not do any re-wiring. I have paid him. However, I have found out I should have got an Installation Certificate, which he has refused to provide. At first he said it was n't necessary and made excuses. He said he only gives a Electric Condition Report for consumer unit changes. He only gives installation report on re-wires.

I have asked 3 different people and all have said I should have got an Installation Certificate. I have offerend to even pay him for it.

We have had a falling out over the matter. I did want Building Control notification.

When I said that I would complain to NICEIC. He was agressive and threatened me.

I don't know the reason for not providing Building Control certificate?

I got the consumer unit changed, as the property was getting refusished and I needed a new line for the electric oven. It was perfect, as he were doing new floors. He was meant to work with builders over the new line.

However, I have been left with a mess. As I need a new line for the electric oven. However, that new wiring remains unconnected. Another electrician said, he could do register the new wiring for the oven has minor work. However, he would need to see the Installation Certificate.

How do I move forward?

 

[Swwils]

The electrician's behavior appears unprofessional, and the situation appears complex. You may need to decide if it's better to take your losses an move on, but you do need to maybe get a better familiarity with certificates and reports.

Certificates and Reports: There are two main documents involved - the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) and the Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR). The EIC is given when a new installation has taken place or when alterations or additions have been made, while the EICR is essentially a "health check" for the existing electrical installation.

As per your situation, it does sound like you should have received an Electrical Installation Certificate, especially considering the change to the consumer unit, where it would be helpful to have test data.

Many electricians will not certify other installations without a full ECIR beforehand to avoid issues that can crop up, but the quality of ECIRs vary massively.

Building Control Notification: The UK regulations require that certain types of electrical work carried out in homes need to be notified to and inspected by the local authority's building control team to ensure it meets the safety standards. This includes new circuits, changes to existing circuits, or any work carried out in 'special locations' like a kitchen. If your electrician is Part P registered (which NICEIC registered electricians usually are), they should do this notification for you. If not, it's your responsibility to do so.

Dispute with your Electrician: Threatening behaviour is unacceptable and unprofessional. You should definitely contact the NICEIC about this issue. They should be able to assist you, especially if the electrician is registered with them.

Here's what you can do to move forward:

Contact NICEIC: Report the issue to the NICEIC as soon as possible. They may be able to mediate or investigate the issue on your behalf. They take complaints very seriously and will want to maintain the high standards associated with their registered tradespeople.

Seek Legal Advice: If the electrician continues to refuse to provide the certificate, you might want to seek legal advice. The certificate is not only necessary for your current situation but also if you plan to sell the property in the future.

Another Electrician: Regarding the new line for the oven, it seems another electrician is willing to certify this as minor work. However, without the EIC for the consumer unit, there might be a problem.

Building Control: You might want to notify your local Building Control. Explain the situation to them and see what advice they can give you.

 

[Risteard]

I have had a consumer changed by a NICEIC certified engineer. (yes, I checked he web site). He did not do any re-wiring. I have paid him. However, I have found out I should have got an Installation Certificate, which he has refused to provide. At first he said it was n't necessary and made excuses. He said he only gives a Electric Condition Report for consumer unit changes. He only gives installation report on re-wires.

I have asked 3 different people and all have said I should have got an Installation Certificate. I have offerend to even pay him for it.

We have had a falling out over the matter. I did want Building Control notification.

When I said that I would complain to NICEIC. He was agressive and threatened me.

I don't know the reason for not providing Building Control certificate?

I got the consumer unit changed, as the property was getting refusished and I needed a new line for the electric oven. It was perfect, as he were doing new floors. He was meant to work with builders over the new line.

However, I have been left with a mess. As I need a new line for the electric oven. However, that new wiring remains unconnected. Another electrician said, he could do register the new wiring for the oven has minor work. However, he would need to see the Installation Certificate.

How do I move forward?

I'm slightly confused by your last comment. A Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate (MEIWC) is completely separate from an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC). If minor works have been done, then this can be certified with an MEIWC, but doesn't need sight of the EIC. The EIC is still required for the replacement of the DB. The MEIWC wouldn't certify the existing wiring for the circuit - it would only certify the specified minor works carried out.

Likewise the EIC for the DB replacement only certifies the DB replacement. It doesn't certify the existing installation.

 

[ericmark]

There is:-
Electrical Minor works certificate
Electrical Installation certificate
Electrical Installation condition report
Except for rented properties non are required.
There are also:-
Completion certificate
Compliance certificate
One is issued by the LABC the other by scheme providers they both do the same thing, they tell you the work has been registered. These are legally required for some work, but not all. What work varies around the UK, England and Wales are not the same, but both require it for a consumer unit change, not a clue about Scotland. You don't say where the property is, and it only applies to domestic property.

If the electrician displays some thing to say he is a scheme member then it is the electrician who is breaking the law not to notify. If he does not, then it is the owner who has to ensure the LABC is notified.

I am lead to believe the scheme provider is the person to complain to if the compliance certificate is not received.

There is an anomaly with rented property, there is no law to say the electrician must issue a installation certificate or minor works certificate but there is a law to say must have paperwork to show when any code C1, C2 or FI are issued that the repair has been done, but this could be a receipt, it does not say a minor works is required.

To complete a certificate the electrician needs to take readings, so if a job is done as an emergency, and the electrician has not taken note of the readings, then to do the certificate he would need to return, and if any other work has been done, then since not his work, he could not issue a certificate. I can see there is a problem with a consumer unit, as the electrician has only fitted the consumer unit, he has not installed the wiring to it or from it, but limitations can be entered in notes, so the normal is to issue an installation certificate.

I suspect the electrician did not note the readings, so in essence he will need to do an EICR to get the readings, but he should have realised he needed them at the time. All you can do is contact his scheme provider and see what they say.

 

[Risteard]

so the normal is to issue an installation certificate.

Just to be clear, it's a requirement - not merely the "norm". But as I stated it only relates to the scope of works and not the existing installation.

 

[Hyper88]

@Risteard What you say is perfectly logical to me. The first electrician who changed my consumer unit has been paid. I don't want to use him again due to this dispute and threats to me.

The second electrician over the phone told me he needs sight of the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC), before he can connect / install the cabling for the oven. I agree with what you say, so I don't know why I was told this. It does not make sense to me either. He should have been able to register as minor work. As an example, a house an old consumer unit but it would not stop an electrician doing additional works. Yet my consumer unit, is the new metal one with dual RCD etc...

If the electrician displays some thing to say he is a scheme member then it is the electrician who is breaking the law not to notify. If he does not, then it is the owner who has to ensure the LABC is notified.

The ordinary customer is n't going to be expected to know this. I did my basic due diligence and saw that he was registered on NICEIC and also the phone numbers were the same, to make sure I am talking to the same person.

I am nervous about reporting him, due to threats.

 

[ericmark]

Just to be clear, it's a requirement - not merely the "norm". But as I stated it only relates to the scope of works and not the existing installation.

Reading the Part P regulations it says where the LABC issues a completion certificate that the owner will not get a copy of the inspection done to issue it. BS 7671 is not law, so we are not required to follow it, although one would be daft not to, however if an electrician is a scheme member then he has signed to say he will follow the schemes rules, so as a scheme member an electrician is breaking the law not issuing a certificate, but this is contract law and between him/her and the scheme, hence why the scheme provider is the organisation who needs to be approached when the certificate is not issued, they can in the case of a death one assumes of a scheme member test and inspect and issue a compliance certificate, but not an installation certificate that can only be issued by the person doing the work.

 

[ericmark]

The second electrician over the phone told me he needs sight of the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC), before he can connect / install the cabling for the oven. I agree with what you say, so I don't know why I was told this. It does not make sense to me either. He should have been able to register as minor work. As an example, a house an old consumer unit but it would not stop an electrician doing additional works. Yet my consumer unit, is the new metal one with dual RCD etc...

If I was to see some thing which does not comply, then before adding to it, it would need correcting, for example if you asked for a new socket, and the consumer unit does not have RCD protection then that needs adding first, I would guess there is some thing the second electrician feels does not comply, and he wants this correcting first?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Do you know for certain (as in did this person provide any ID, did the invoice address match the contact details on the NECIEC site) that the person who did the work is the registered person?
And if you have any written messages (texts or emails) discussing the work that would be good.
The only route that won't cost you money is complaining to the registering body that he hasn't notified building control. If you are concerned about his threatening behaviour then also contact Plod.
The other electrician wanting sight of the EIC before connecting the oven is odd. Possibly the CU is a mess, possibly you've been fobbed off with a non-compliant (plastic) cu. Pic would be helpful