No electrical earth

[simpav]

I am fitting a new light fitting to the ceiling. As the fitting is metal I fully understand the need for an earth to be present but there is no earth coming from the ceiling.

Is there a simple solution to get around this

 

[gjelect]

do any of your other lights have an earth?

 

[andy]

I am fitting a new light fitting to the ceiling. As the fitting is metal I fully understand the need for an earth to be present but there is no earth coming from the ceiling.

Is there a simple solution to get around this

sounds like a re-wire may be needed. when was it last rewired?

 

[mapj1]

If the feed wires are rubber and crumbly I would agree, save up for a re-wire. However, if the wiring is PVC and in good condition, it is acceptable (but only really worth it if this is the ONLY fitting to which you need an earth) to take a separate earth cable to the fitting in question. Ideally a length of green-yellow running back from the fuse board, but in practice an earth connection 'borrowed' from another circuit is better than none at all.
The 14th Edn allowed un-earthed metal fittings so long as they were out of reach. This concession was removed when the 15th edition of the regs came in in the late 60s.
regards M.

 

[simpav]

The fitting is in a through lounge. The other connection from the ceiling has an earth. does this make for an easier solution to the problem.

How do you go about 'borrowing' an earth from another circuit.

 

[plugwash]

The fitting is in a through lounge. The other connection from the ceiling has an earth. does this make for an easier solution to the problem.

the problem is if some points on a cuircuit are missing earth wires those earth wires that are there may not be connected.

How do you go about 'borrowing' an earth from another circuit.

with a peice of earth wire of course

 

[simpav]

not being an electrician I am not au fait with the art of 'borrowing an earth', could you enlighten me on the processes involved

 

[gjelect]

where the fitting with the missing earth is have you had the rose off and checked that it has not just been cut short? r u close to oxford?

 

[simpav]

There is definately no earth. But a piece of wire with a green covers has been taped to the cover of the red wire and has been inserted into the cover of the red wire where the red wire comes out of its cover.

Miles from oxford

 

[mapj1]

OK. To borrow an earth, means to run a wire to bring the earth to a fitting, but not necessarily by the same route as the original live and neutral feed. In the limit, you connect one end of a wire to the last nearest place known to have a good earth contact, and then thread that wire through to the new fitting, using bamboo canes, curtain wire drain rods or whatever to pull it through to minimise the number of holes you need to cut and later fill. The end of the wire at the new fitting is the 'borrowed' earth. So called because it comes from another place.
This is not a shining example of good practice, but is certainly better than the alternative of leaving the earth contact on the new fitting disconnected. Suitable green/yellow covered wire can be found at most electrical wholesalers. If many fittings need this treatment than it is much better to renew the wiring properly.
However, you may find that the bare (but green sleeved) wire you can seen nestling along side the red one is the earth you need but it has been cut back out of the way as 'unneeded' , in which case all you need to do is extend the end of it, with a joint plus short length of new wire, or if you can just pull a bit more cable through if there is some slack, and remake the ends off.
However, how old is the cable?, (or when was the house built?) If the other lights do have an earth, then it probably gets most of the way there already.
BUT as already indicated, if the house is a mix of earthed and non-earthed fittings, it is possible the wire is there at the fitting, but it never makes it back to the main earth terminal, being cut somewhere else as unneeded. If you have meter with an 'ohms' range, this is easy to check, as there should be a low resistance (only an ohm or two max) between the wire that should be earthed, and something you know for certain is (like the main earth terminal, or an earth of a nearby socket.)
regards,
M.

 

[securespark]

It is acceptable in the eyes of the NIC only to run a separate cpc "in close proximity" to the live & neutral.

If this cannot be done, the cable should be replaced with t & e.

If you're not going to bother doing the job properly, don't do it at all. Get someone who will.

 

[simpav]

Ive had a look at thing a bit more closely. What we have are two cables coming from the ceiling. On black one and one grey one .The grey one has a red wire in it and an uncovered wire. I assume this is the earth.

Is this a safe state of affairss ?

 

[Big_Spark]

Simpav, Yes the unsheethed cable is the Earth and it is OK to connect this the metal of the fitting. However you need to be sure that this earth is connected at the other end..otherwise connecting to the fitting would be largely pointless.

I would suggest that you call in a spark to look at your installation to be on the safe side.