No Gas heating roomstat fitted

[john tee]

Hi,

My daughter has just moved into a private landlord property which has very old gas central heating fitted. The boiler is floor mounted in the kitchen and controlled by a RANDAL 103 timer which turns it on or off. There is no Zone Valve fitted to select "Hot Water" only, i.e. if she wants any hot water she has to have the radiators that work blazing hot at the same time.

To add insult to injury there is NO room thermostat fitted to control the house temperature so the boiler just burns constantly unless my daughter turns down the "Boiler Stat," although that doesn't seem very effective in function.

Now my questions. Is it in any way against regulations to have a gas boiler controlled by just the thermostat on the boiler itself. Also is the above heating configuaration in any way against current regulations here in the United Kingdom, or in any way dangerous?

My daughters landlord says it safe and above board to run it in the way I've described. It's costing her most of her wages in winter just to keep the house warm because there is no proper control by thermostat.

Sorry about this long winded post but I thought I'd best give as much info as possible. I hope some member can guide us on this.

Thanks,

John

 

[ChrisR]

It's against current regs to install like that, but they aren't retrospective.
Not rare in days gone by. Not dangerous. (necessarily!)
Also quite likely it has some control you may not have seen like a summer/winter valve, but it's likely seized anyway.

I don't supose the rad valves are thermostatic? Nah, I don't suppose they even turn without leaking



Make sure she has a copy of an up-to-date Landlords Gas Safety Record, which is a legal requirement.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Was none of this mentioned on the energy efficiency certificate?

I thought they were mandatory now to provide tenants with some idea of what they are letting themselves in for?

As said by Chris though - there is little that can be done to get it changed under the law.

 

[doitall]

Simplest solution would be to move to some where better.

 

[john tee]

Hi,

Many thanks for your time and advice. The house is let by an estate agent on behalf of its owners. My daughter never received any energy efficiency certificate or energy performance certificate when she took residence. In fact the heating did not work at all for many weeks until a local 'fitter' came to 'fix' it. We don't know if the guy was a CORGI registered person or a cheap handyman. He took several hours just to get the boiler fired up and then left rather quickly. The boiler itself doesn't even have a front cover on it and the pilot light viewer has no glass in it. Most of the radiators didn't heat up after his visit and it took me quite a while to get system circulation by bleeding out air and black sludge. It looks like the radiators have thermostatic valves fitted but the control heads are missing on all but two of them and these don't seem to work properly (probably jammed or similar?)

After reading Dan's quote: "I thought energy efficiency certificate (EPC) were mandatory now to provide tenants with some idea of what they are letting themselves in for," I did a search and found reference to this on Direct.Gov.uk website. Thanks Dan.

We've been to the letting estate agent and they say they will have a word with the landlord although he's very difficult to contact most times. Sounds like a FOB off to me. We also asked about the certificates and they couldn't find anything on their computer system. They said they will be there somewhere and they'll send a copy. I look forward to seeing which person or organisation did the EPC appraisal.

In response to ChrisR info we also asked about a copy of an up-to-date Landlords Gas Safety Record, which is a legal requirement. Once again it was somewhere on their system and they'll send a copy because they couldn't find it at that moment. Thanks Chris.

It's a bit worrying for my daughter now because she's understandably uncertain to the safety of the gas heating system. The letting estate agent is not a "two bit organisation" and they surely have much to lose as a business should a catastrophe occur, my daughter and grand-daughter have potentially more to lose than a business's credibilty .

Of course a move would seem the best option but both her small work income and my old age pension could not support it.

Many thanks once more for your help guys, should anyone else on our forum have any contribution it would be very welcomed.

Thanks,

John

 

[ianmcd]

if the pilot viewing glass is missing and the boiler casing is missing this should never pass a landlords gas safety inspection so will be interesting to see if you ever get a copy

 

[Dan Robinson]

John, I would be very concerned about your daughter in this property.

Boiler not having its case=bad

Boiler pilot sight glass=very very bad.


Their should be a copy of the certificate in the property. Balls to their system. It should be there for the tenant to see. The landlord must have a copy + several from years past (can't remember how many at present) and the RGi that did the inspection should also keep copies - for two years IIRC. When we do them, we have a copy stapled to the paper copy of the invoice that is kept with our tax records - so 7 years minimum.

The EPC is a load of boolax really, but the lack of one shows the ineptitude of the agent.


Stand by for some strongly worded letters to the agent, and be ready to withhold rent if things are not corrected within a reasonable length of time.

I should also advise you to tell her to turn off the boiler.

And it is Gas Safe, not CORGI... contact them as well. 0800 4085577

She is paying good money to live there. The very least they can do is make sure the place is safe. There is no excuse for it.

 

[Peet]

Sounds like it would a be good idea for her to go and buy a Carbon Monoxide detector due to the aged, and what sounds to be a system that works but hasn' t been cared for.
Also get her to read up about the symptoms of Carbon Moxide poisoning and what to do if and when the alarm goes off.

 

[ALEC1]

i thought rental property had to have a co alarm

 

[john tee]

Hi to everyone,

I'm absolutely overwhelmed by the advice and support of each members contribution to our dilemma. Your provided information gives us constructive ammunition to fire at these inadequate letting organisations and the individuals they represent. I will of course be using it to its maximum potential, after all, safety is paramount where gas is concerned as the recent spate of explosions with fatalities has so readily identified here in the UK.

Gas Safe is a great lead Dan, thanks for the contact number. I also found a web page www ( dot) hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqtenant.htm. I wasn't sure whether full web links are permitted.

My daughter, like many others, when taking up the option of renting her property, trusted the integrity of the ‘professionals’ involved to provide a safe and inspected house. It was only after she moved in that the above anomalies became evident.

My apologies to Dan in respect to not answering your earlier question, “Was none of this mentioned on the energy efficiency certificate?", as you will no doubt have realised Dan, we have not seen any certificates of any kind, in the property or on the letting agents computer held records.

For safety I will buy my daughter a carbon monoxide detector today, even though she's resigned to turning off the gas at the main valve whenever she can. Relighting the boiler is a nightmare but she'll suffer that inconvenience for peace of mind.

I intend to compile and print off the posts as hard evidense and if necessary drop these in front of the letting agents for their response.

May I ask members to please continue to provide any further additional information they may find in respect to the issues identified, we really appreciate such.

Many, many thanks,

John

 

[Peet]

if the pilot viewing glass is missing and the boiler casing is missing this should never pass a landlords gas safety inspection so will be interesting to see if you ever get a copy

And even if you do get a copy, with something like that don't stop there, follow it up.

 

[Phill Peck]

My advise would be to employ someone to carry out an inspection on your behalf ( a local independent would be my advise) if for nothing else peace of mind. A landlord/homeowner inspection is not expensive.(you could always deduct this from any rent

By not providing you with one the landlord/agent is breaking the law! DON'T PAY YOUR RENT until you receive a certificate. If they are unwilling to provide a certificate. As said report them to gas safe and find a new place for your daughter to live

 

[Peet]

Hi,

My daughter has just moved into a private landlord property which has very old gas central heating fitted. The boiler is floor mounted in the kitchen and controlled by a RANDAL 103 timer which turns it on or off.

I'm not a gas engineer but....
I would also guess that the boiler is an open flued type, ie it draws its air to burn from the room it is in. In which case it should have unobstructable vents of a certain size direct to the outside world and ideally one at high and one low level. Although many people won't put up with the cold draft at times.
As you're going in to see the agent then the other one to mention is mains powered interlinked smoke alarms. A requirement now in rental properties. I take it she's in a house with just her as the occupant and not a shared house? Otherwise it'll be different again. Ideally one in the kitchen, one the other side of the kitchen door in something like a hallway, and one somewhere like the top of the stairs and near to sleeping people. A fire in the kitchen (usually deemed the highest risk area) is bad enough but without interlinking the one in the hallway would be slower to sense it if the connecting door was shut until it was more developed, so loosing you your early warning. Linked alarms and a shut kitchen door gets you an earlier warning.

If the landlord has provided any electrical appliances these must be PAT tested.

There's a couple of good websites around for landlords and these equally apply to the tenant

eg
http://www.landlords.org.uk/tenants

Same for fire regs. Look up 'fire risk assessment' and put the building through one to gain a feel for what should be getting done.

Hope that helps

 

[john tee]

Hi to everyone,

I will be pushing the letting agent further for the required certificates & inspection documents as a matter of urgency.

Also I have found a list of local accredited persons who should be competent to undertake a survey failing a negative from the agents or the elusive Scarlet Pimpernel landlord.

Peet, my daughter and grand-daughter are in the house as sole occupiers and the property had no smoke alarm fitted when they moved in. We purchased and fitted two battery operated types on the first day of occupancy not realising it was a landlords responsibility to fit mains interlinked units. It looks like they've skimped on yet another important requirement. I'll check out the boiler type tomorrow, if it is open flued I will check for adequate ventilation as you describe. Thanks for the link to the landlords website, very useful info therein.

My 'army' of information is getting stronger by the day thanks to the help of everyone here. When I finally get round to firing the first shots in the direction of the agents they're going to wonder what in the hell has hit them. I cannot honestly believe my daughter is alone here, I'll bet there are other tenants on their books with similar issues.

I extend my thanks once again for everyones time and knowledge, I will of course feed back details as they develop.

Sincerely,

John

 

[Armo74]

Might be an idea to get the electrics checked aswell Earth bonding etc.