Seems reasonable to take the view that you cannot really argue against discouraging the disconnecting and then reconnecting by the DIYer - of a CU. Although some may be confident.
No provision of a new CU and no new circuit - Minor Work?
- Thread starter DIYalot
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Seems reasonable to take the view that you cannot really argue against discouraging the disconnecting and then reconnecting by the DIYer - of a CU. Although some may be confident.
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I suppose so, if one were being pedantic. However, if one talked about 'replacement' of a switch, socket, cable, fuse, shower, immersion heater, lamp, light fitting, FCU or whatever, I think that virtually everyone would 'use a dictionary' which interpreted that as meaning replacing an old item with a new one - not re-positioning an existing item! - so I'm not sure that it should suddenly be different for a CU!
Kind Regards, John
It's competence which counts and it's certainly not necessarily the case that a 'DIYer' is not competent to do any particular job (from a 'full re-wire'' downwards). 'Confidence' is far more dodgy, since we are forever seeing and hearing of people who feel 'confident' to do something which they are clearly not competent to do safely.
Kind Regards, John
It's not suddenly different.
Replacement (whatever it means) of a switch, socket, cable, fuse, shower, immersion heater, lamp, light fitting, FCU or whatever is not notifiable.
Not only repositioning but reinstatement
Replacement (whatever it means) of a switch, socket, cable, fuse, shower, immersion heater, lamp, light fitting, FCU or whatever is not notifiable.
Not only repositioning but reinstatement
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Oh, fair enough. I thought you were quibbling about the fact that some dictionaries might give 'repositioning' as a definition of 're-placement'!
I think we are probably agreed that the great majority of DIYers should not even think about disconnecting, and then reconnecting, most of the cables going to a CU - but I struggle to interpret the law as saying that it is notifiable.
Indeed, many of us probably think that any sort of 'fiddling in a CU' is something that all but a tiny few 'DIYers' should be strongly discouraged from doing ... yet we 'encourage' (or stronger!) all DIYers to do 'all the proper required tests' after, say, extending a ring final circuit ... so I'm not sure that we are necessarily all that consistent!
Kind Regards, John
What would be the correct certification to make out if the work done did simply consist of disconnecting then reconnecting wires in a CU? I think it would be the Electrical Installation Condition Report (EIC). I don't believe that the Minor Electrical Installation Certificate is appropriate.
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In as much as 'full testing' of every final circuit that had been disconnected and reconnected would probably be required, I would personally agree that an EIC (not MWC) would probably be appropriate.
Kind Regards, John
We had something similar in the early days where some Building Inspectors (non electrically trained) decided that removing a CU that had been fitted to a DNO meter board and then refitting it when we changed the meter board was notifiable. (Plus the issue of the customer being left off supply if it was notifiable and they and their council getting the blame)
A bit of discussion showed them the error of their thought!
A bit of discussion showed them the error of their thought!
...but it is different now.
Early days:
Not notifiable -
1. Work consisting of—
(a)replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—
(ii)a consumer unit;
Nowadays:
Notifiable -
“(6A) A person intending to carry out building work in relation to which Part P of Schedule 1 imposes a requirement is required to give a building notice or deposit full plans where the work consists of—
(b)the replacement of a consumer unit.
The reasons for the choice of wording is not explained.
Indeed, but, for a start, that is clearly all wrong!! Part P of Schedule 1 does not "impose a requirements to give a building notice or deposit full plans" in relation to any work. Indeed, Part P of Schedule 1 says absolutely nothing about 'notification' at all! This legislation was clearly not adequately checked for 'internal consistency'!
Kind Regards, John
I don't understand your point. You have removed a relevant part of the clause(s).
What do you mean by "Indeed, but"?
The requirement of Part P is to (in more words) do safe work and clearly applies to replacing a consumer unit, therefore the person carrying out that work is then required to give a building notice.
The Building Regulations are as I have cut and pasted.
What do you mean by "Indeed, but"?
The requirement of Part P is to (in more words) do safe work and clearly applies to replacing a consumer unit, therefore the person carrying out that work is then required to give a building notice.
The Building Regulations are as I have cut and pasted.
Apologies, I misread the quote. I read "... imposes a requirement is required to ..." to be saying "... imposes a requirement to ...". I therefore don't have a point
... but the question remains, whether with current or old legislation, whether there is some reason why "replace" and "replacement" should have different meanings in relation to CUs as in relation to almost any other component of an electrical installation. I personally find it hard to see why CUs should be singled out for a different definition.
Kind Regards, John
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Provision of has been replaced by replacement but I don't think CUs are singled out for a different definition (of replacement).
They are singled out as being notifiable - which you surely must agree is understandable as the job is somewhat more complicated than replacing a socket (or similar) and, of course, isolation is more involved.
Not specifically by the legislation. I agree. However, as I said before, I was talking about 'normal usage' of the word. If in any other context, I told you that I was going to 'replace the accessory/shower/light fitting/whatever' I think you would assume that I was going to remove an existing <whatever> and put a new one in its place, wouldn't you? I've merely been saying that I would expect, in normal language', "replacing a CU" would have that same meaning. In the absence of any definitions or indications to the contrary, I think that we (and even a Court) have to assume that, in the legislation, "replace" has that 'normal meaning'.
If anything is going to be notifiable, then 'replacing a CU' obviously should be. So, equally obviously, should be installing a new CU (where there was not previously one); although the (poor) wording of the current legislation does not seem to include that, the work as a whole would usually be notifiable by virtue of 'new circuits'. In the context of this thread, I think most of us would also feel that 'disconnecting and then reconnecting' the same CU should also be notifiable - although I struggle a little to see that it actually is, given the (poor) wording of the legislation. It certainly would seem apparent that no-one should 'disconnect and then reconnect' a CU unless there were actually competent to 'replace a CU' - and that is going to be only a tiny proportion of non-electricians.
As for why 'provision of a CU' in the old legislation changed into 'replacement of a CU' in the current legislation, might that possibly have been a (messed up!) attempt to close a potential 'loophole'? Under the old legislation, if a CU were 'provided by' some third party, the person undertaking the work might have tried arguing that they had not 'provided' a CU!
Kind Regard, John
Not if I knew you had removed it yesterday.
Not if you know it also means reinstate.
I agree that a new CU where there was none should obviously be notifiable.
Yes, they do seem good at choosing ambiguous terms, don't they?
Why not simply fitting or connecting CUs is notifiable?
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