Noggins and Herringbone straps?

[iDIY]

I am a layer of blocks below installing my 1st floor joists in an “L” shape building. Some joists are 2.0m span others are 2.9m span.

The drawings state the use of herringbone straps but no mention of noggins. Should I use both anyway? If so at what spacing, I.e noggins at say 300mm from each end and herringbone straps across the centre ?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Usually noggins OR herringbone struts, they both perform the same function. Put them where the drawings say to put them

 

[John D v2.0]

herringbone struts are a little more hassle as you can't just use offcuts, but they are more rigid, and the best of all is they still allow you to thread services through easily.

 

[Ian H]

If you use noggins screw through them at an angle onto the hoist rather than square through the joist into the noggin.

Screwing into the end of timber isn’t so strong.

 

[iDIY]

If you use noggins screw through them at an angle onto the hoist rather than square through the joist into the noggin.

Screwing into the end of timber isn’t so strong.

Ok thanks, I will need to put some noggins in anyway as I have to fit lateral straps across the 3 joists at each outer edge

 

[^woody^]

Use herringbone noggins.

 

[John D v2.0]

If you use noggins screw through them at an angle onto the hoist rather than square through the joist into the noggin.

Screwing into the end of timber isn’t so strong.

isn't strong under tension, but by the time that becomes a problem your wall probably fell down already!
I guess that's why the straps holding up the walls and gable ends have to be fixed to the first few joists.

 

[Leofric]

Herringbone strutting at mid span of the joists and the provision of lateral restraint straps to walls are two completely different situations , but you need both .

 

[garyo]

Do the pro's that use herringbone chisel little notches into the joists so that the flooring/plasterboard don't rock over the square twist nails etc?

 

[Leofric]

Are we talking about timber herringbone strutting or the galvanised metal straps

 

[garyo]

Are we talking about timber herringbone strutting or the galvanised metal straps

The galvanised metal strap type

 

[SFK]

Garyo,
I am a DIYer, but yes I set my router to cut shallow slice out of top of joist to put in top of herringbone so there was a flat surface for floor boards.

I was very impressed how well they strengthened floor and reduced bounce.

No idea if cheaper/better elsewhere but i used these:
https://www.toolstation.com/search?q=herringbone
SFK

 

[garyo]

ut yes I set my router to cut shallow slice out of top of joist to put in top of herringbone

glad it's not just me then (although I admit to doing it old-school with a chisel). I've used both steel herringbone and struts in the past. The additional work of notching the joists makes me think there's not much in it work wise. For me I'd say the key differentiator is 1) steel herringbones is better for passing services through 2) solid noggins have the ability to let you use the screws to pull out any twists in joists and square everything up.

 

[23vc]

Are the (metal) herringbones better at reducing joist bounce than a bit of cut joist with screws then? If so I’m a convert

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Are the (metal) herringbones better at reducing joist bounce than a bit of cut joist with screws then? If so I’m a convert

I don't know- they might be better cos the load is lateral to the fixings rather than in line. Price of timber these days they're probably as cheap...might try them in the next floor I do and see what happens. Of course, they won't work so well on older floors where the joist centres are a wee bit random