Don't know if its possible or not but uploading to YouTube and posting a link does
Noisy pipes
- Thread starter Nisha2021
- Start date
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As @Madrab has already said, I'm more concerned about the integrity of the joists which have been notched. Do you know how deep the joists are? The photos are a too grainy for me to tell if there is insulation between them, under the pipes.
The waste pipe run is not good as there's no fall on it, let alone the bidirectional tees.
Ticking pipes is something we do our best to avoid but it can't always be guaranteed not to happen. The pipe runs are too close together and could have done with felt lagging in the notches to act as an acoustic sleeve.
If it's structurally sound, then I guess you'd have to learn to live with the noise as it's all finished and would be arduous to detect and resolve... You might pull it all up and redo and find there is still a noise(s)... May I add that, as a parent of a toddler, your hearing is likely to be hypersensitive and your brain is searching for noises... No offence, but sound is another sensitivity that is unique to the individual.
The waste pipe run is not good as there's no fall on it, let alone the bidirectional tees.
Ticking pipes is something we do our best to avoid but it can't always be guaranteed not to happen. The pipe runs are too close together and could have done with felt lagging in the notches to act as an acoustic sleeve.
If it's structurally sound, then I guess you'd have to learn to live with the noise as it's all finished and would be arduous to detect and resolve... You might pull it all up and redo and find there is still a noise(s)... May I add that, as a parent of a toddler, your hearing is likely to be hypersensitive and your brain is searching for noises... No offence, but sound is another sensitivity that is unique to the individual.
Duplicate post
The waste pipe is sitting atop the pipes, so naturally when the pipes are expanding and contracting (knocking and banging) it's going to resonate through the waste pipe
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@Nisha2021, I appreciate the finish may be good and it's not what you want to hear but if those joists have been cut the way several of us professionals on here think they have been then the ticking is the least of the problems.
To put it bluntly:-
judging the depth of the notch in those joists by taking the size of the 40mm waste pipe adding that to the 22mm pipe it's sitting on and with room to spare to then get the floor board on top of that, then unless you have joists that are over half a meter deep (the notch shouldn't be any more than 1/8th of the depth of the joist) then the depth, breadth and where on the joist they have been cut could have compromised the strength of the joist and the whole floor could now be dangerous. If they are compromised then best case is that the joists could sag, worst case they could break. Don't forget, the joists are what hold the whole floor up, if they cant do that then the whole floor comes down into the kitchen.
Honestly, you really need to talk to a structural engineer or experienced local joiner ASAP and show them the pictures and ask them to comment on the viability of the floor.
As far as a video is concerned then you need to upload them to your media section in your profile, then copy the link from there into the post. If you don't have an online space to save your video to then on a PC, save the video to your device then click on your name>albumspage>addmedia and upload the video clip, then copy the link from there into the post.
To put it bluntly:-
judging the depth of the notch in those joists by taking the size of the 40mm waste pipe adding that to the 22mm pipe it's sitting on and with room to spare to then get the floor board on top of that, then unless you have joists that are over half a meter deep (the notch shouldn't be any more than 1/8th of the depth of the joist) then the depth, breadth and where on the joist they have been cut could have compromised the strength of the joist and the whole floor could now be dangerous. If they are compromised then best case is that the joists could sag, worst case they could break. Don't forget, the joists are what hold the whole floor up, if they cant do that then the whole floor comes down into the kitchen.
Honestly, you really need to talk to a structural engineer or experienced local joiner ASAP and show them the pictures and ask them to comment on the viability of the floor.
As far as a video is concerned then you need to upload them to your media section in your profile, then copy the link from there into the post. If you don't have an online space to save your video to then on a PC, save the video to your device then click on your name>albumspage>addmedia and upload the video clip, then copy the link from there into the post.
Here is the recoding of the sound. I am afraid these are too loud to be ignored.
The plumber is saying the following...
The size of depth is 42 mm for waste pipe and 25 mm for copper pipes in the joists...
I understand that the joists is more of the concerns now. Will contact a local joiner and get there advice on this.
Your advice will be very helpful to form our decision.
Regards
OK, going with those pipe dimensions and to keep within the regs for notching joists, you joist would need to be at least 560mm deep (approx 70mm x 8 )
As per the building regulations, even with the largest standard floor joist size @ around 300mm deep then the largest notch that can be cut into it is 35mm. To accept the notch that has been cut in those joists, even if it wasn't too wide (which it seems to be) and in the wrong place on the joist (within the centre of the span), the joist itself would need to be a min of 560mm deep. You don't get joists that deep unless they are large roof beams or bespoke timbers which yours don't seem to be.
https://www.labc.co.uk/news/how-get-it-right-notches-holes-solid-timber-joists - 1/3rd of the way down the page, 2nd table, end column.
As far as the noise is concerned then that's not just the normal clicking that you can sometimes get. That's a nightmare and shouldn't be occurring nor would I deem that acceptable. I don't think changing the pipework behind the vanity will make much difference TBH. I would be looking at the way the plumbing has been installed as the likely culprit.
Was this chap a qualified plumber or just a bathroom installer?
As per the building regulations, even with the largest standard floor joist size @ around 300mm deep then the largest notch that can be cut into it is 35mm. To accept the notch that has been cut in those joists, even if it wasn't too wide (which it seems to be) and in the wrong place on the joist (within the centre of the span), the joist itself would need to be a min of 560mm deep. You don't get joists that deep unless they are large roof beams or bespoke timbers which yours don't seem to be.
https://www.labc.co.uk/news/how-get-it-right-notches-holes-solid-timber-joists - 1/3rd of the way down the page, 2nd table, end column.
As far as the noise is concerned then that's not just the normal clicking that you can sometimes get. That's a nightmare and shouldn't be occurring nor would I deem that acceptable. I don't think changing the pipework behind the vanity will make much difference TBH. I would be looking at the way the plumbing has been installed as the likely culprit.
Was this chap a qualified plumber or just a bathroom installer?
Thank you for your information.
Just checked with him, he does not have any plumbing qualifications. He said you don't need any!
We got him from this website mybuilders.com. he has good reviews photos of his bathroom work. He send me many photos of his bathroom work.
Whole bathroom cost us about £4000. Paid about half of that...
Now I am thinking that he is only a bathroom installer not a plumber otherwise he wouldn't have made this mistake.
Our local plumber has also showed his concerns on the joists...
It means we do need to open it up and fix the joists and redo the pipes.
What are my rights if I want him only to open it up and ask a local plumber to redo the pipes and ask a joiner to fix the joists?
Please advice..
Much appreciated
Just checked with him, he does not have any plumbing qualifications. He said you don't need any!
We got him from this website mybuilders.com. he has good reviews photos of his bathroom work. He send me many photos of his bathroom work.
Whole bathroom cost us about £4000. Paid about half of that...
Now I am thinking that he is only a bathroom installer not a plumber otherwise he wouldn't have made this mistake.
Our local plumber has also showed his concerns on the joists...
It means we do need to open it up and fix the joists and redo the pipes.
What are my rights if I want him only to open it up and ask a local plumber to redo the pipes and ask a joiner to fix the joists?
Please advice..
Much appreciated
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The loud banging is resonance through the plastic waste, as it sits directly on top of the copper pipes.
Regards the joists, you need to speak to the bathroom fitter and give him the chance to rectify the fault.
It appear the waste needs to be situated above the joists so you will likely need to alter the bathroom layout for this.
He should really have used common sense before cutting the joists.
It's a shame he botched the pipework as the finish is quite good
Regards the joists, you need to speak to the bathroom fitter and give him the chance to rectify the fault.
It appear the waste needs to be situated above the joists so you will likely need to alter the bathroom layout for this.
He should really have used common sense before cutting the joists.
It's a shame he botched the pipework as the finish is quite good
Unfortunately he's right, you don't need any qualifications to do plumbing, but you do need qualifications to do plumbing correctly and part of that is being taught what is and isn't allowed when it comes to the notching of joists and setting out pipework properly all of which he obviously doesn't know.
Makes me wonder what else he has left in other jobs if he thinks that butchering job he has done on the floor and that dogs dinner called pipework is ok and safe.
If he has compromised the joists to the point where they are weakened then the only fix for that is remove the pipework and patch them - blocks of hard wood that would be glued and screwed to fill the gaps he's made at an absolute minimum, if not sistering them too. Then the pipework would need set out properly and fitted safely and correctly. Basically it would be a full redesign I'm afraid to say.
As far as any recourse is concerned, then I would say that you are well within your rights to have that all stripped back and made safe on his time. As far as to what you have paid him up to now then, minus any materials then you could be owed that back too but you are then getting into the realms of professional reports and claims against the substandard work.
If he's unwilling to do any remedial work (basically stripping all that out and making the floor joists safe) then I'd be getting in touch with your local council building control, trading standards, citizens advice, mybuilder.com etc for advice.
Again I appreciate it's not what you want to hear, but for you and your's safety you do need to.
I think, for yours and your family's safety, it needs to be stripped out and inspected properly. The joists are a fundamental part of the structure of the room, as Madrab has said above, there is a risk if it fails, of the bathroom, (and any occupants), crashing through into the room below, (on top of any occupants).
There are far too many chancers now offering to do work on peoples homes, I see the same names coming up again and again on Social Media every time someone asks for recommendations to do a job. They cannot be qualified in everything, and indeed I do wonder if some are qualified in anything, which is why you end up with People doing work of this poor quality.
Unfortunately, most are quite good at making things look nice, which fools the customer into thinking they've done a good job, whereas underneath it is shoddy, substandard or even downright lethal. Has to be said, if the pipes weren't making a noise, I doubt you would have had reason to ask on here.
There are far too many chancers now offering to do work on peoples homes, I see the same names coming up again and again on Social Media every time someone asks for recommendations to do a job. They cannot be qualified in everything, and indeed I do wonder if some are qualified in anything, which is why you end up with People doing work of this poor quality.
Unfortunately, most are quite good at making things look nice, which fools the customer into thinking they've done a good job, whereas underneath it is shoddy, substandard or even downright lethal. Has to be said, if the pipes weren't making a noise, I doubt you would have had reason to ask on here.
Unfortunately you have fallen prey to a typical jack of all trades but master of none. It's a perfect example that proves that anyone doing this work should be trained and experienced in it and why I believe regulations should be in place to protect the consumer from exactly this type of thing.
I hate to think how many other jobs are like this and it's a message to the normal house holder as to how badly work can be performed and not know about it, if you don't know what you're looking at. The problem is that by that time it's all covered up and no-one see it and doesn't know about it until it goes wrong. It can look lovely on the outside, so gets great reviews, unfortunately underneath it all it's a nightmare.
The most worrying thing about all this is that if it wasn't for the clicking this could have gone unseen until a major problem occurred.
This chap needs to be stopped from working as a bathroom fitter if this is typical of what he does.
I hate to think how many other jobs are like this and it's a message to the normal house holder as to how badly work can be performed and not know about it, if you don't know what you're looking at. The problem is that by that time it's all covered up and no-one see it and doesn't know about it until it goes wrong. It can look lovely on the outside, so gets great reviews, unfortunately underneath it all it's a nightmare.
The most worrying thing about all this is that if it wasn't for the clicking this could have gone unseen until a major problem occurred.
This chap needs to be stopped from working as a bathroom fitter if this is typical of what he does.
B
Bodd
B
Bodd
Sorry thst this has happened to you Nisha.
There really is some sisters out there.
You have had some great advice .
Please keep us informed.
There really is some sisters out there.
You have had some great advice .
Please keep us informed.
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