Opinion on crack on brick in 42 yr old house

[saranam]

Hi

Could i ask opinion please. In process of buying house.

Building survey revealed milk crack going through brick as in photo. surveyor mentioned evidence of past movement based on this. Mentioned condition 2, rake and monitor over 6 month period. if required to get on structural engineer report for ongoing movement and to inform insurance company. i could see the similar size of the crack in similar place 3 yrs ago in google maps photo. Structural engineer advised? House 42 yrs old. I have not spoken to estate agent or surveyor yet. thanks

 

[KenGMac]

saranam, good evening.

Any chance of some other images to locate the site of the crack.

Now to the good bit? if you can prove by reference to Google Street view that the crack has been there for some considerable time it can be assumed that the crack is simply thermal, not Structural?

Ask the Str. Eng what is the problem?

Ken

 

[saranam]

Thanks Ken
Below middle window in picture below.
Also google street link before extension done (pls zoom below left window). extension started 2014. so crack for at least 3 yrs or even longer

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3...4!1sItQ8op1wqJdiZ2UqDPbu9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do u agree in google maps? (little difficult to zoom in but i think i can make out)

Can i ask vendors to arrange structural engineer?

 

[Doggit]

As the crack is over the small extension at the front, it's most likely to be the rsj below it. Was the building survey done by a qualified surveyor, or just a home boyers type report.

If it's structural movement, then the insurance should cover it, but there'd be a £1000 excess, so the existing owner should inform his insurance company, and deposit the excess with your solicitor in case you have to pay out. But if it's the rsj that's defective, then this could be a few thousand for renewing it, and then replastering and redecorating again.

 

[^woody^]

It's a thermal crack - common shrinkage. Those bricks, and that location, and three course of bricks make it insignificant. Nothing to do with any beam or any distress.

The fact that you have paid for a surveyor who had failed to diagnose this would be more concerning. I'd love to know how he has reasoned structural movement from a vertical crack.

As long as there is no corresponding crack on the inside ( which would indicate movement) then it's nothing to worry about. It should need to be filled, and a clear mastic would be the most unobtrusive.

And get a refund from the surveyor.

 

[tony1851]

Can i ask vendors to arrange structural engineer?

If I was the vendor, I know what I'd reply to that.

 

[saranam]

This is the exact wordings from Building survey report as below. Also the photo of inside of property which is tiles and may not be able to see the inside of crack. What would the structural engineer would say ? can they predict the age, historical and non progressive just from outside Or do they likely say it needs to be monitored ?

Movement has occurred to the property evidenced by cracking to brickwork and mortar
joints beneath the left hand front bedroom window. Verify whether the cause of this
defect has been rectified. If relevant documentation is not available, you are advised to
obtain an inspection by a building contractor prior to purchase. Carry out remedial work
as recommended. The possibility of future or ongoing movement cannot be ruled out
from this single inspection. If you require knowing whether movement is ongoing before
buying the property, you are advised to obtain a structural engineers report prior to legal
commitment to purchase. In the short term, you are advised to rake and repoint the
affected mortar joints and monitor over the next sixmonth
period.

 

[^woody^]

Movement has occurred to the property evidenced by cracking to brickwork and mortar
joints beneath the left hand front bedroom window.

Have you had a proper survey or valuation by a clown?

There has been no movement if that crack is this only evidence. That crack in no way is indicative of structural movement, and any surveyor should know that.
You have had a very poor survey, and that description and recommendation I would suggest, is not to the standard of what an RICS member should be meeting.

Btw, tiles like glass, crack at the slightest bit of movement.

 

[saranam]

Thanks Woody. I think she (surveyor) may be quite defensive in her words just to protect herself. I will email her and ask her how she can justify a movement. My seller is a builder as well and i will ask him.

 

[KenGMac]

saranam, good evening again.

Suggest that you may want to ask the Surveyor what is the method of movement? is it the downward movement of the Foundations [the Insurance Companies definitive test for Subsidence?] Or is it some other type of movement.
Suggest that you also point out that the same crack can be seen on an unaltered digital image from several years back??
Is there any corresponding cracking anywhere else?

As for the Surveyors suggestion about rake out and re-point, absolutely NOT because the colour of mortar will vary wildly, then guess what when the property is next up for sale a bright eyed and bushy tailed "Surveyor" will spot the difference in colour and hey presto this entire Circus will start up again.

As "Woody" use clear mastic, do not smear it on use a fine tip on the applicator and squeeze the mastic only directly into the crack.

It would appear that the general consensus of the board and one to which I agree is that the crack is thermal, look at the position?? a narrow top to bottom section of brickwork no expansion joint in the gable [Expansion joints should be built in at about 6. M C/Center according to modern day practice] And a perfect "Slip plane" exists on the DPC which will probably be on the top surface of the lintel that this area of brick is bearing on???

Thermal nothing else.

Ken

 

[stuart45]

Movement joints are 12M on clay brickwork Ken, 6M on AAC blockwork.

 

[^woody^]

Thanks Woody. I think she (surveyor) may be quite defensive in her words just to protect herself. I will email her and ask her how she can justify a movement. My seller is a builder as well and i will ask him.

The dilemma you have with getting the sellers opinion, is that with things like this it would be in your interest as the buyer to use any defect to your advantage and as a lever to negotiate a discount.

So from a buyer's perspective it's worth using the surveyor's report as-is if it says that there is a problem - even if the surveyor is incorrect.

What you need to ask the surveyor is if she has explored all the possible reasons for that cracking, and then discounted each possible cause one by one until she arrived at the most likely cause?
Where is the rotation to indicate differential movement?
Why is the crack there and nowhere else?
Where are the other cracks to support a conclusion of structural movement?
Why is there no internal cracking?
Are those bricks in that exposure susceptible to any particular cracking?

Those are just some of the questions she should be asking herself in reasoning a possible cause of the cracking.

 

[saranam]

Thank you all for your opinion and put my mind at rest especially Ken and Woody. I spoke to the seller and the crack was there when they bought the house 7 yrs ago. Showed evidence in their brochure. I am just going to leave it as it is.

 

[KenGMac]

saranam, good evening again.

Possibly an obvious statement, but? if you are to proceed to closure and purchase the property.

If the vendor had creditable evidence regards the time line on this crack, I would suggest you obtain same from them, why? because some numpty valuation surveyor at a future date will spot the probably only defect in the property and this entire thing kicks of again.

Ken.

 

[RigidRaider]

Surveyors, eh? One of them failed to spot that almost every gable in an estate of bungalows had been rebuilt and that in my friend's prospective purchase both gables were heading sideways thanks to no cross-bracing. She bought the house then realised and went after the surveyor. They refused to pay for the work but didn't reckon with her determination, she being a former Police DI. After a long battle she got the gables rebuilt at the surveyor's expense, or at least at the expense of their PI insurer.