Opinions? UK Wiring standards.

[plugwash]

it was clearly the plug that was faulty not the sockets (and presumablly to use her hoover in a normal socket she had to manually open the shutters....). Who exactly compelled you to replace them?

 

[Shengis]

Some years ago I was a subby at Aldermaston on a major refurb. All of the accessories were being changed to the then "new" style MK accessories. 3 weeks into the project one of the specifiers was visiting the works and found that a cleaner was using a plug upside down in the socket. It transpired that the earth pin was missing from this plug (obviously old ) and had the effect of reversing the polarity on her Hoover. The same day we had to remove them and started fitting Tenby sockets. You'd think a firm like MK would have foreseen possible probems from moving from Earth pin gate activation to Live/neutral "twist" gates. Sometimes change isnt that good.

You know, I never even noticed that! I just happen to have an MK double socket in front of me that I was going to chuck in the cellar and just checked it against the 'cheap' Wickes ones i've got. Spot on. That IS pretty daft

 

[plugwash]

well yes and no, the only thing i've found that will open those shutters is the live and neutral pins of a 13A plug. Normal 13A sockets on the other hand can easilly be used with unfused europlugs or worse with a bit of force with german and french earthed plugs (which they will connect to but won't provide an earth to).

 

[Adam_151]

So are you saying MK sockets don't rely on the earth pin to open the shutter? and instead 'recognise' the neutral and live pins as not being forgein objects?

Just been and tried it on the only MK socket in the house, a double logic plus, and it didn't work, I slipped the earth pin out from a class 2 desk lamp plug and tried to plug it in, didn't go, turning it upside down and using the earth pin I took out of the plug allowed it to go in as you would suspect, I did also try it with a screwdriver, and I couldn't fool it in the same way as a 'normal' socket, so not sure what is going on there

 

[plugwash]

maybe they have changed the mechanism since to check the earth pin as well but there was certainly a generation of MK sockets that would take a plug without one.

 

[Shengis]

Had to test it myself as well Bought a compressor from halfrauds a few years ago and for some reason that had a 'euro' 2 pin and earth plug on it. Just managed to force it halfway in but it didnt complete the circuit. On the other hand, with a rubber trailing extension and the deft use of a screwdriver on the earth shutter........ NOT my normal way of using it btw Havent got a 13a plug to hand so cant test the upside down thing but i'd guess it would work easily.....

Edit: Does work, 2 drill bits pushed in at the edges opened the shutter. Thats why the round pin plugs (as well as being slightly too tight for the slots) wont open it, they're too close to the centre.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ban all sheds thats a lot of smileys....10/10 for effort.
Please explain them.

Simply a reaction of mirth to this:

And heres the best reason for Part P....to stop non qualified people from carrying out sub standard work as described above

As if that was even the theory behind Part P, let alone the practice of how it's been done....

 

[RF Lighting]

MK sockets require all three pins for the shutter to open.

See Here (top of page 2)

 

[Shengis]

MK sockets require all three pins for the shutter to open.

See Here (top of page 2)

On that particular 'revision' of the socket maybe..... Not all though. Would photograph the one i've got here but i'm too tired atm.

 

[Job_n_knock]

When I was on site I used to look for 2 chippies on the job or 2 brickies...there was sometimes a "power struggle" normally ending up with one saying "you do it your and I'll do it mine ok.......now f*** off ". Basically its a case of someone of the same trade always checking you out to see if you make an either an error or leave something out then jumping all over you in order to massage the ego...fun times.... hope it doesnt happen here.

Many a time past Ive managed to open the gates of an MK socket with 2 screwdrivers in order to demonstrate the point that its possible. They might well have changed it since then. Ive been using Tenby now for years and doubt I'll ever change because I simply prefer them to the others including MK.

 

[Job_n_knock]

When we have members of the public who are not Au fait with Electricity asking for advice from Electricians, how can we safely expect them to carry out electrical work to a standard that not only conforms to Part P but also the basic standards by which we all have to abide by however trivial. By that I mean correct method of termination into a terminal, correct conductor length/ contact with screw. The importance of tight connections, correct colours used....basic stuff which we dont even think about when we work because we are conditioned to it....members of the public with zero experience are not, but I still see guys here explaining how to do things. Try explaining the full ramifications of Part P to your Mum and see how long it takes for her eyes glaze over with boredom or anyone else for that matter.
But if you explain that what it does is ensure that work carried out is properly tested and certified by trained people then it encompasses all of it to the untrained novice as explained here by BAN_ALL_SHEDS :-

For the most part it is a Good Idea - it's basically designed to stop the kitchen fitter or boiler installer or off-duty fireman who has "watched someone else" and now thinks he's an electrician. IMHO, if someone is taking money to do a job then they should be qualified and certified and insured etc - they should be better and more knowledgeable than a DIY-er, otherwise what's the point?

This explains my surprise at the following reaction from BAN_ALL_SHEDS when I was basically saying the same thing :-

Job_n_knock wrote:
Ban all sheds thats a lot of smileys....10/10 for effort.
Please explain them.

Simply a reaction of mirth to this:
Quote:
And heres the best reason for Part P....to stop non qualified people from carrying out sub standard work as described above

As if that was even the theory behind Part P, let alone the practice of how it's been done....

I like the idea of this site in fact I am very impressed by it. My only concern is that IMHO No-one is competent to work on Electricity with no training whatsoever and I certainly do not consider a few helpful words from people here as "training" however helpful they may be. I think its good to inform members of the public who seek help with basic stuff but when it gets to Part P and abbreviations it loses them and I suspect that most of the posts begin to exhibit signs of "showing off"...a kind of "look what I know"......What we used to call a power struggle (laughs)
Theres no doubt people are helped here and thats good. But it isnt helpful to slate posts that are well intentioned with remarks that are designed to belittle them.