P&O admits breaking law

[JohnD]

"The chief executive of P&O Ferries has admitted to breaking the law by firing the company’s entire UK crew without notice or consultation.

Giving evidence to UK MPs on Thursday, Peter Hebblethwaite was asked if he had “wilfully” broken the law by paying off almost 800 staff instead of launching a formal consultation as the law requires, he said: “I completely hold my hands up . . . we did choose not to consult.”

“There’s absolutely no doubt that we were required to consult with the unions. We chose not to do that . . . and will compensate everybody in full for that,” he said. Any consultation would have been a “sham”, he argued, because the company was moving to an entirely different operating model and “no union could accept our proposal”.

Under the new model, new P&O crews will be paid an average of £5.50 an hour, which is legal despite being well below the UK minimum wage. This is because P&O ships operate in international waters."

FT.com

 

[motorbiking]

I'm really not convinced about that last sentence...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/minimum...arers-territorial-waters-uk-continental-shelf

 

[Mottie]

I don't agree with what they have done but he is right. Consultation would have been a sham and the unions would not have accepted it. At least they are being honest and offering a fair payment.

 

[The Samaritan]

You would not be saying that if it was your company. P&O have been too genrous.

I'm glad they are still around otherwise prices will double, if not more

Thanks

 

[ajohn]

They will have included potential costs including breaking the law in their calculations. There has been comments that they are making redundancy payments. So would guess that this area concerns breaking the law. It would be a new twist to get jobs back this way. Not so sure if unions matter other than say salary negotiations but believe there must be a warning period, duration depending on numbers.

For some reason I worked out what a tax allowance of £12,500 means If some one gets holiday pay, 40hr work per week it works out surprisingly close to £6 / hour. Unless my calculator acted up. I was interested in stagflation and ever increasing tax takes from increasing prices. The current lot have hit the high spot. More taken than Wilson.

 

[danechip]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60881550

 

[motorbiking]

The severance offer exceeds the tribunal award cap, so that is how they avoid an employee taking them to court. Who would go to tribunal to get less money? However, it only takes one agency worker to report them for minimum wage violations and there would be a case. It is not straightforward to argue a person is self employed or an agency worker if they only have one client. P&O get off the hook under the new scheme if they can clearly avoid treating the new "employees" as anything other than service providers. It only takes one slip.

Given the above, the authorities are quite clearly looking to make trouble for P&O. Rightly so.

I do not buy the argument that P&O could notify Cypriot authorities of the redundancies. I suspect the P&O employees where classed as UK employees, with UK employment contracts.

 

[Notch7]

I understand the company that bought P&O tried doing the same to a USA company and the American govt blocked it.

Sadly we are happy to allow any dodgy foreign interest to buy our businesses for short term profits…..and this is what it leads to.

by the way, Grant Shapps knew about the problems with P&O in December

 

[fillyboy]

I understand the company that bought P&O tried doing the same to a USA company and the American govt blocked it.

Sadly we are happy to allow any dodgy foreign interest to buy our businesses for short term profits…..and this is what it leads to.

by the way, Grant Shapps knew about the problems with P&O in December

My understanding is that the company buying P&O ferries were also buying P&O ports, a number of ports owned were in America and the yanks stepped in to exclude the sale of the American ports on the grounds of security.
The labour govt here at the time didn't share those concerns so didn't intervene in the sale.

 

[JohnD]

Johson has stepped up his output of verbosity and mock outrage

to give the impression that Conservative governments care about workers rights and public benefit

neither is true.

 

[fillyboy]

Johson has stepped up his output of verbosity and mock outrage

It would appear he's not the only one.

 

[ajohn]

by the way, Grant Shapps knew about the problems with P&O in December

I heard comment that fire and hire was mentioned in the house. I think earlier than this particular event.

The labour govt here at the time didn't share those concerns so didn't intervene in the sale.

Much like other things that should not have been sold. Of late I have watched AlJ news. Yesterday it was followed by a program on drinking water and went through finances on Thames Water. Bought up by an Australian company that has a nickname of the Millionaire's Club. It seems outfits like this like water for instance as there is always growth due to population increase. True but exaggerated IMHO. Anyway they make their money by paying high dividends and increasing debt.

You in particular are well aware of the famous lady that sold all. The problem with this is that in terms of utilities it doesn't make much sense as it leaves things open for situations like Thames Water and now our docks in another respect. All utilities really. Now why sell? A side effect is reducing gov expenditure. That in part comes about because when the gov own things increasing prices or making people redundant is not a good way of getting votes. Things finish up being subsidised. Even council houses.

Once sold the gov also gets corporation tax if they make a profit so we pay that plus dividends. Things get split up to supposedly to cause competition in some of the utilities. It needs more god like high salary twerps to run them. On gas and electricity due to nationwide networks it doesn't work out so well. A group looks after that the others are just retailers. BT is another example with odd side effects.

Debt figures too - it's not on the gov's books anymore. It's still there though and we are paying it.

However the great British public are convinced that privatisation is the only way. Odd that a number of countries manage some areas without it.

So labour sell the docks. Money has probably been spent on it as a result. If kept were would that have come from? Debt. They gain some money. That really figures at times and it often seems to save them paying for upgrades,

NI tax take and where it's spent is an interesting area. You may find out how interesting if pure NHS funding is looked into. Privatising that would mean a company would have to set the taxation rate or be paid directly. Health systems in some countries fall behind where they should be because correcting it will need an increase in taxation.

 

[fillyboy]

I heard comment that fire and hire was mentioned in the house. I think earlier than this particular event.



Much like other things that should not have been sold. Of late I have watched AlJ news. Yesterday it was followed by a program on drinking water and went through finances on Thames Water. Bought up by an Australian company that has a nickname of the Millionaire's Club. It seems outfits like this like water for instance as there is always growth due to population increase. True but exaggerated IMHO. Anyway they make their money by paying high dividends and increasing debt.

You in particular are well aware of the famous lady that sold all. The problem with this is that in terms of utilities it doesn't make much sense as it leaves things open for situations like Thames Water and now our docks in another respect. All utilities really. Now why sell? A side effect is reducing gov expenditure. That in part comes about because when the gov own things increasing prices or making people redundant is not a good way of getting votes. Things finish up being subsidised. Even council houses.

Once sold the gov also gets corporation tax if they make a profit so we pay that plus dividends. Things get split up to supposedly to cause competition in some of the utilities. It needs more god like high salary twerps to run them. On gas and electricity due to nationwide networks it doesn't work out so well. A group looks after that the others are just retailers. BT is another example with odd side effects.

Debt figures too - it's not on the gov's books anymore. It's still there though and we are paying it.

However the great British public are convinced that privatisation is the only way. Odd that a number of countries manage some areas without it.

So labour sell the docks. Money has probably been spent on it as a result. If kept were would that have come from? Debt. They gain some money. That really figures at times and it often seems to save them paying for upgrades,

NI tax take and where it's spent is an interesting area. You may find out how interesting if pure NHS funding is looked into. Privatising that would mean a company would have to set the taxation rate or be paid directly. Health systems in some countries fall behind where they should be because correcting it will need an increase in taxation.

I agree with quite a lot of that.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I understand the company that bought P&O tried doing the same to a USA company and the American govt blocked it.

Sadly we are happy to allow any dodgy foreign interest to buy our businesses for short term profits…..and this is what it leads to.

by the way, Grant Shapps knew about the problems with P&O in December

Yep, they will always look after big business in this country. Any coincidence this happened after Brexit? First of many? Could they get away with this in EU?

Previous governments allowed the selling off of our vital industries and utilities to foreign owners for a quick buck. Now our utilities, elec, gas, etc are some of the most expensive in Europe.

We were warned that Brexit would mean much reduced worker rights. Project fear?

 

[mattylad]

I hear that Boris is also jumping on the bandwagon for saying the P&O CEO should resign for doing something illegal.

Boris has also ensured that he does not get invited to any future Downing st parties.
Pot>Kettle>Black springs to mind.