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Painting Kitchen units...

Discussion in 'Decorating and Painting' started by stevewestern, 12 Dec 2012.

  1. stevewestern

    stevewestern

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    I have been asked to quote to paint a kitchen - loads of units, loads of drawers and I am dreading the job - so much fiddly cutting in and working round a family who will need to eat twice every day, and worst of all is the husband who works from home, in the kitchen.....
    Anyway, my question is this - how would you do it ?

    I would clean it all down with Krud Kutter or something similar, then a coat of Zinsser water based 123 followed by maybe a coat of Johnstones Joncryl undercoat then 2 coats of Johnstones water based eggshell.

    I guess my main query is would you bother with the U/C ?
    I don't like to cut corners but the family are keen to keep the price low - so, any opinions ?
     
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  3. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Walk away mate. It's a disaster waiting to happen.
     
  4. ryanhirst

    ryanhirst

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    This job could prove to be more hassle then its actually worth, I would probably pass it onto somebody else if Im honest
     
  5. stevewestern

    stevewestern

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    I hear what you are both saying but I feel sort of committed - this woman works for my best client and the job may well lead to a fair bit of well paid work (they are in the banking business.....!)
    The last job I did for her boss (she was my contact there) I was told to raise my price, so walking away isn't really an option.

    I am wondering about getting the doors and drawers sprayed but know nothing about this - anyone know a decent sprayer in East London/Essex ?
     
  6. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Opps is the specialist. He'll be along today.
     
  7. dhutch

    dhutch

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    I like the idea of getting the doors taken off and spraied. However, its never going to be as hard as the origanal finish, which I something I would mention to the client before starting the job.

    I also done think I would be be painting the insides, sides of drawers, etc. Because again, I can cant see it being better then the origanal.

    Is the job a quick a dirty job to tart up the units to extend the life a bit, or someone who wants fairly new units to be a colour they cant otherwise have? I presume the former as you mention cost being a driver. You could proberbly do worse than take them off and spray them yourself with aerosols, although just like brushed on paint, you would need to look into how to get a good bond.


    Daniel
     
  8. stevewestern

    stevewestern

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    Inside of drawers etc NOT being painted, just the fronts and both sides of the doors.
    The reason for the repaint is that some of the doors have got water damage so are being replaced and the new ones are not quiet the same shade of off-white as the existing.

    I am surprised that some of you say to walk away - the job is a challenge and so many jobs are so routine and dull - this will push me and as I mentioned, may get me plenty more well-paid work !

    I certainly appreciate all the concern though - maybe I am just being a fool - lets hope opps comes along soon to offer his expert advice !
     
  9. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Years ago I sprayed my first car with with a dead cheap HVLP spray unit - it was fantastic - first go it looked like a pro job. I reckon you could do the same with your doors in the garden (bit cold atm though). Read up a bit on them.
     
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  11. dcdec

    dcdec

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    Steve there is a site by a guy thats got a lot of advice and i'm sure there is some kitchen cabinet info on there its

    http://traditionalpainter.com

    some useful info on there you might just have to scratch around a bit to find what your looking for.

    I'd go with F&B acrylic eggshell rather than Johnstones as its very well rated and a better finish IMO
     
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  12. stevewestern

    stevewestern

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    Thanks dcdec - I'll take a look.

    Not used F and B paint since they first appeared and were expensive and thin but I have heard they are much better now !
     
  13. joe-90

    joe-90

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    You'll never get water based to lie flat enough with a brush. Only an oil based will be smooth enough.
     
  14. stevewestern

    stevewestern

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    joe-90 = you sound like a man who has not tried Corona brushes yet.....

    (said in jest, and I have to say that this is a part of my worry ! - Corona brushes are wonderful, its more my level of skill that is the joke here....)
     
  15. dcdec

    dcdec

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    I think Joe makes a good point with a lot of the wb paints a flat finish is difficult to achieve. I get good results with satura, johnstones silk and aqua gloss and aqua u/c and the sikkens BL u/c is very good. I think the key (unfortunately) is multiple coats and very good prep it is (i believe) a good idea to apply a sanding sealer before painting.
    If i was in your position i think i'd try and talk the client into sikkens BL satura, i know its not eggshell which is the norm but its a fairly low sheen and you will be able to achieve a flat finish with it, especially with those corona brushes!

    It might be worth having a look at the little green OB eggshell and perhaps have a chat with them regarding yellowing, i'm not sure how honest they'll be but i think they use a different solvent to a lot of the others. One draw back is they don't do a pure white so paint and paper library might be worth a punt too (if they do an OB eggy).

    Let us know what you decide and how you get on
     
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  16. opps

    opps

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    Hi steve

    I would be tempted to recommend HVLP, you can hire turbine units. HVLP has less bounce back than conventional compressor based spraying. The oft touted stats are that HVLP results in 70% of paint on the surface (30% wasted airbourne "dust") this compares favourably to 70% bounce back with conventional.

    I only have practical experience of using Acid-Cat (aka 2K), it is a two part paint that uses isocyanates as a catalyst. Unfortunately isocyanates when atomised are potentially very toxic and have been known to trigger asthma in (some) people using them that had not previously shown any signs of asthma. In the USA (I believe) you are allowed to use passive charcol face masks. In the Uk you are supposed to use a clean air supply.

    I must admit that when spraying outdoors, with a fag in my mouth, I just hold my breath. Other times I wear a mask. but i am spectacularly stoopid and would not recommend that anyone else puts their lungs at risk.

    The big advantage of acid-cat is drying time, in the summer I can apply 3 coats, with sanding, in one day (both sides sometimes). Touch dry is 15-20 minutes. AFAIK it is one of the hardest wearing paint finishes (once cured).

    Companies such as Morrells will colour match and match the sheen level for you if you take a sample. You re looking at over £50 ish per 5L inc VAT and catalyst plus thiiners on top.

    You can apply the AC paint in very low temperatures, in some respects when using a turbine based HVLP the cold helps the paint to settle (turbines produce a lot of hot air which can result in dry spray on hot days). I have been spraying outdoors for the last two weeks (I don't have a proper spray booth), the temperature drop does slow the catalyst from working quite so fast but you can hire an infra-red heater to speed things up, at a push a warm air dryer will help.

    At some point though, if you are spraying on site, you will need to bring the doors back inside to harden, they will still be releasing solvents and stink. In small rooms with no airflow the fumes can be enough to make your eyes water, opening a window slightly will stop the watering eyes but you will still have the smell for a couple of days.

    You wouldn't be able to take the doors/drawer fronts outside at this time of the year and handpaint WB finishes. Actually you probably could but you wouldn't be able to leave them outside for any length of time

    If you are more sensible than me you might consider Morrells range of water-based finishes. These are gaining popularity, largely because of H&SE issues. I don't have any experience of using them personally but I have heard good tings about them. Unfortunately I know little about curing times, the Morrells rep can advise you further. In the event that you opt for the WB spray paint, check to find out what needle size you need for the gun (most hire units will be 4 or 5 stage turbines, with the latter being better at atomising the thicker WB finishes, WB paints are thicker than AC and will need a "fatter" needle) It might be the case that they recommend an airless sprayer for WB finishes, again you can hire them.

    Airless tends to require much faster gun movement. Again I have little experience of it but I know that in the USA it is considered to be the daddy

    You should find AC quite forgiving and easy to work with (assuming that you have a lowish sheen finish). another popular paint is cellulose, once the darling of the car industry, again I have no experience of working with it.

    Much of the advice above is based upon certain assumptions

    1. the doors don't have butt hinges, hence you will need to remove them to paint them anyway.

    2. the client actually wants a spray finish. Many clients with traditional shaker style doors actually prefer a hand painted finish.

    3. the client wants them done as quickly as possible

    If you decide that you don't have the space/inclination to spray yourself here is a firm that sprays off site in east london (I have never used them).

    With regard to hand painting, as DCDEC suggests, WB eggshell might be the best finish to go for. The Little Greene paints are highly recommended. Being WB, on site smells will be acceptable. You will be able to partially paint the doors whilst hanging but as you are doing bothsides you will need to remove them at somepoint.

    WB eggshell will be less durable than OB but if clients are careful it should suffice. Prepainting preparation will depend upon the current finish.

    Apologies, the above is a bit of a ramble, I am running late for work.

    Please feel free to ask for more specific advice once you decide which finish you will go for.

    cheers
     
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  17. stevewestern

    stevewestern

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    Very many thanks opps - I really appreciate the time and effort !
    Your knowledge is even bigger than my overdraft !

    I am going to talk to the client and see what they want to do.
    I'll try to find the contact details spray people in East London and see if they can give me some idea of costs - I don't think I am going to try to learn how to spray on a job !
    I also don't fancy putting myself at any risk of asthma given that both my father and sister died from it and related illnesses...

    Thanks for all the help everyone !
     
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