Part P advice in a bathroom.

[sjwkmje]

Hi All,

I know quite a few of you are clued up on Part P. Till this morning I considered my self quite clued up. I over heard a job today involving a new shower and shower cubical inside a wet room where I have all ready undertaken new work, new extractor fans etc. This involved splitting the upstairs lighting radial into two segments the new segment feeds two bathroom off an RCBO. All new cabling upstairs. All done under part p.

I am inclined to say that the shower cubical been new and has an earth tag should be bonded and my work upgraded to include some bonding in the wet room even tho there is RCBO protection. I remember reading something about extraneous metal objects and this applying to a metal shower cubical. IET paper prehaps?

Any way regardless of that I have left the job, tested inspection all done and a plumber is fitting the shower. He is on about fitting a powered shower pump. This guy is not a spark. As far as I can tell and the only way to wire this is off the lighting circuit as this is RCBO protected and that is a big no for starters. As far as I can tell from reading the regs the pump needs to be RCD protected as well.

He is planning on installing it inside the airing cuboard to get away from part p, and using the immersion heater supply on a 16a type b radial to supply it via a fcu.

My argument is that there is a length of 15mm copper pipe that is conductive from the pump to the mixer and has soldered joints. So part p should apply as this work is in a bathroom regardless of location of the pump. Am I right here? Now to feed this pump correctly a radial should be installed and RCBO protected or break into the upstairs ring final to feed a FCU. The radial is actually easier in this case due to CU location. And the RCBO is required as the CU is all RCBOs. My previous work and I like using RCBO for 17th edd compliance.

As far as I can tell no testing inspection will be carried out from him and he will probally try and say it is 17th edd compliant and part p due to my previous work.I have refused to get involved as the plumber wants to do it all and the house holders / customers want a cheap job.

So the pump is been installed in the airing cuboard with a 3A FCU wired off the back of the 20A DP switch for the immersion heater in 2.5mm t+e. Any one else see a problem here? I want to see what you all think before I list the regulations I can think off that this breaks.

I think this guy is a cowboy been freinds of the customer they want it doing cheap on the side but this guy is going to leave an installation possibly unsafe as he does not seem to grasp where he would be going wrong if it was not RCD protected.

Should I walk away or try and stop this guy? I spent years at college, on site training, just doing my 17th edd and this guy thinks because he has been doing it for years he can carry on. Personally I would be inclined to make up a list and speak to trading standards and the BCO. I have evidence of my tests and photos of all the work I did so I cannot be held responsible if anything goes wrong.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Spark123]

Personally I'd wipe my feet on the way out!! The owner knows of the risks and chooses to ignore them, you have voiced your concerns and he chooses to ignore them.
As the cupboard is not in zones of the special location then technically electrical work in here isn't notifiable. Part P applies to all electrical work in domestic dwellings in England + Wales, hence even if it is non notifiable it still must be done correctly be safe otherwise it will still not comply with P1 of Part P.
If the MI says the pump needs to be on RCD then it needs to be to comply with the 17th. If the pipework is effectively bonded (by measurement) or isolated so it is not extraneous then it doesn't require additional bonding - have a peep at the wiki on bathrooms.

 

[Taylortwocities]

BTW. Water vessels of over 15litres should be supplied by their own separate circuit. (OSG 8.5).
I do not think that this wording means that you can hang burglar alarms, shower pumps and TV boosters off the same supply - but i could be wrong...

I cant find reference to the 15litre thing in BS7671 itself , only in the OSG. Can any bookworms find anything?

 

[Spark123]

I think that is only guidance tbh. If there is adequate capacity left on the circuit then there is nothing stopping you from using it.

 

[NoPoke]

Not a fan of part P . But that is a different story.

What you describe does not sound safe. The prospect of copper pipework connected to a bathroom becoming live as a result of a shower pump failure or cable fault within the airing cupboard would have me very concerned. The whole purpose of the regulations is to have an installation that stays safe in the event that a typical single fault occurs. Stays safe by ensuring that there is no hazard when the fault occurs and that a fuse or other circuit protection operates to ensure that the fault condition cannot persist.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I despair.

He is planning on installing it inside the airing cuboard to get away from part p,

Part P applies to all work on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter that are intended to operate at low or extra-low voltage and are in or attached to a dwelling etc etc, not just notifiable work.

So part p should apply as this work is in a bathroom regardless of location of the pump.

Part P applies to all work on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter that are intended to operate at low or extra-low voltage and are in or attached to a dwelling etc etc, no matter where it is.

 

[flameport]

I have refused to get involved as the plumber wants to do it all and the house holders / customers want a cheap job.

That is the correct, and only option. If people want a job done properly then they will have to pay for it. If someone else goes in and does things wrongly, it is their responsibility when it all goes wrong.

Everyone wants good value and no one wants to pay over the going rate but people who want 'cheap' jobs generally get exactly what they deserve.

 

[sjwkmje]

I despair.

He is planning on installing it inside the airing cuboard to get away from part p,

Part P applies to all work on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter that are intended to operate at low or extra-low voltage and are in or attached to a dwelling etc etc, not just notifiable work.

So part p should apply as this work is in a bathroom regardless of location of the pump.

Part P applies to all work on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter that are intended to operate at low or extra-low voltage and are in or attached to a dwelling etc etc, no matter where it is.

I know it applys to all domestic work. I should have made this clear that I understand this. I was just saying he thinks he can get around it by installing it in the airing cuboard and not notifying. I am tempted to print out a copy of the part p approval document for him and highlight the sections that apply as he has ovbisousley not read it.

In this case installing a new circuit will be notifable work. There is no capacity on the exsisting radial according to my clamp meter.

Adam